Was Jesus born with exact same human nature as all of us?

[1689Dave]

Jesus was fully man,fully God

Then he had two persons = not mentally well. Here's the Symbol of Chalcedon on the matter.

THE SYMBOL OF CHALCEDON

The Symbol of Chalcedon, adopted at the fourth and fifth sessions of the Fourth Ecumenical Council, dates back to 451 A.D.. Philip Schaff, in his Creeds of Christendom, writes of the Symbol (or Creed) of Chalcedon, “While the first Council of Nicaea had established the eternal, pre-existent Godhead of Christ, the Symbol of the Fourth Ecumenical Council relates to the incarnate Logos, as he walked upon earth and sits on the right hand of the Father. It is directed against the errors of Nestorius and Eutyches, who agreed with the Nicene Creed as opposed to Arianism, but put the Godhead of Christ in a false relation to his humanity.”3



We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [coessential] with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.


Historic Creeds and Confessions. (1997). (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Lexham Press.

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus did not have a human spirit, the seat of sin. His Spirit is God. He had a human mind and body through Mary.

Jesus had and still has everything that we do as being human, just that he has a sinless humanity nature!

 

[Yeshua1]

Then he had two persons = not mentally well. Here's the Symbol of Chalcedon on the matter.

THE SYMBOL OF CHALCEDON

The Symbol of Chalcedon, adopted at the fourth and fifth sessions of the Fourth Ecumenical Council, dates back to 451 A.D.. Philip Schaff, in his Creeds of Christendom, writes of the Symbol (or Creed) of Chalcedon, “While the first Council of Nicaea had established the eternal, pre-existent Godhead of Christ, the Symbol of the Fourth Ecumenical Council relates to the incarnate Logos, as he walked upon earth and sits on the right hand of the Father. It is directed against the errors of Nestorius and Eutyches, who agreed with the Nicene Creed as opposed to Arianism, but put the Godhead of Christ in a false relation to his humanity.”3



We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [coessential] with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.


Historic Creeds and Confessions. (1997). (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Lexham Press.

Jesus has a fully God and fully human nature, correct?

 

[Iconoclast]

Then he had two persons = not mentally well. Here's the Symbol of Chalcedon on the matter.

THE SYMBOL OF CHALCEDON

The Symbol of Chalcedon, adopted at the fourth and fifth sessions of the Fourth Ecumenical Council, dates back to 451 A.D.. Philip Schaff, in his Creeds of Christendom, writes of the Symbol (or Creed) of Chalcedon, “While the first Council of Nicaea had established the eternal, pre-existent Godhead of Christ, the Symbol of the Fourth Ecumenical Council relates to the incarnate Logos, as he walked upon earth and sits on the right hand of the Father. It is directed against the errors of Nestorius and Eutyches, who agreed with the Nicene Creed as opposed to Arianism, but put the Godhead of Christ in a false relation to his humanity.”3



We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [coessential] with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.


Historic Creeds and Confessions. (1997). (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Lexham Press.

Dave, read this portion carefully;

Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably;

the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved,

and concurring in one person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son,

and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

 

[Yeshua1]

Dave, read this portion carefully;

He does seem to almost be saying that Jesus was God in human flesh, but just God!

 

[1689Dave]

Dave, read this portion carefully;

But ONE person, not crazy.

 

[1689Dave]

Jesus had and still has everything that we do as being human, just that he has a sinless humanity nature!

But ONE Person not crazy.

 

[1689Dave]

Jesus had and still has everything that we do as being human, just that he has a sinless humanity nature!

two persons = crazy.

 

[Yeshua1]

But ONE Person not crazy.

2 natures within One person!

 

[Yeshua1]

two persons = crazy.

One person, but who has 2 natures!

 

[HankD]

The verse actually uses die twice. Any other time it would be accepted that this is emphatic (like "amen, amen" ). It is usually understood "dying you shall die".

indeed literally it says "dying you shall die the deaths". interesting - the "you's" in the text are singular (although the LXX has them plural).

in any case none of us were virgin conceived, so right away we have a different beginning.

then Romans 5:12
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

sin entered
death passed
all sinned

The verbs are all aorist so my view is the events all happened simultaneously - we were all there and sinned with Adam when he sinned.

 

[JonC]

indeed literally it says "dying you shall die the deaths". interesting - the "you's" in the text are singular (although the LXX has them plural).

in any case none of us were virgin conceived, so right away we have a different beginning.

then Romans 5:12
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

sin entered
death passed
all sinned

The verbs are all aorist so my view is the events all happened simultaneously - we were all there and sinned with Adam when he sinned.

The aorist can be difficult (and has been the cause of debates among linguistic scholars). While we cannot apply the aorist to the Hebrew it does(taking into account the NT) seem to suggest simply that on that day death will be a surety (rather than a potential) as through sin death has entered the world.

 

[HankD]

The aorist can be difficult (and has been the cause of debates among linguistic scholars). While we cannot apply the aorist to the Hebrew it does(taking into account the NT) seem to suggest simply that on that day death will be a surety (rather than a potential) as through sin death has entered the world.

Death is far more complicated than loss of life.

 

[Yeshua1]

indeed literally it says "dying you shall die the deaths". interesting - the "you's" in the text are singular (although the LXX has them plural).

in any case none of us were virgin conceived, so right away we have a different beginning.

then Romans 5:12
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

sin entered
death passed
all sinned

The verbs are all aorist so my view is the events all happened simultaneously - we were all there and sinned with Adam when he sinned.

All who were to be born after Adam shared in his fall, save for Jesus, due to him being Virgin Born, conceived by the Holy Spirit!

 

[Yeshua1]

Death is far more complicated than loss of life.

indeed, as also has a spiritual connection!

 

[HankD]

we have this GLORIOUS FACT:

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

 

[JonC]

Death is far more complicated than loss of life.

Not really. It is an absence of life. Scripture seems to treat the idea of death on very simple grounds. Sometimes our theology demands more than Scripture would offer.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not really. It is an absence of life. Scripture seems to treat the idea of death on very simple grounds. Sometimes our theology demands more than Scripture would offer.

There is physical and spiritual death aspect, as in those judged into the lake of Fire will experience....

 

[Particular]

or was the Virgin Birth required for Him to bypass that happening?

Jesus is the new Adam. He is the perfect representation of the first Adam, with no corruption in Him. There is no corruption from Mary in Him.

The Virgin birth happened by God's ordinance so no human corruption would be in him. God became human so that God would redeem corrupt man according to his choosing.

 

[HankD]

Not really. It is an absence of life. Scripture seems to treat the idea of death on very simple grounds. Sometimes our theology demands more than Scripture would offer.

Paul proclaims - sin revived and i died, - Jesus requires that we die to self, we also must put the flesh to death, DEATH is not simple theology not just the absence of life.