Was Jesus ever disobediant?

[Baptist Believer]

So, what state did you do the time in?

College.

Instead of being out at night, I stayed home and started studying my Bible about 9-10 pm. I was usually up until at least 2 am, but it was not uncommon to see the light of dawn before I went to bed for a couple of hours. During those times of quiet study, the Spirit met with me and helped me work through a lot of issues. I also asked a lot of questions that I resolved by trips to the library as well as these odd little moments with other Christians where they just happened to be thinking through some of the same issues.

And interesting thing that I did not notice much at the time, I was a lot more rested back in those days than I had any right to be. I was getting little sleep, but I did not seem to suffer that much.

 

[HAMel]

When Jesus was a baby did he cry?
When Jesus was a baby did he cry to get what he wanted?
Is a baby crying to get what they want a form of manipulation?
Did Jesus manipulate His mother in this manner?

Huh?

What difference does it make?

I wonder if..., ...uh, if Jesus had a tricycle would he have rode it?
Did Jesus ever suffer from sunburn?
Did he ever choke while eating a lamb chop?
Did Jesus ever think girls were pretty?

...I think Jesus was overcome with being rejected and otherwise cried a lot.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I think Jesus was overcome with being rejected and otherwise cried a lot.

Are you are suggesting that Jesus was not happy and content with His life? That is the opposite impression I have from the gospels. Yes, I know, "man of sorrows and acquainted with grief," but I think you can experience deep sorrow at appropriate times and endure grief, but still be a happy and contented person.

 

[HAMel]

@Baptist Believer..., I'm not trying to suggest anything that might be contrary to your image of Jesus.

To me, I don't really care if He grew up as a normal child or not. He was God the Spirit manifested in the flesh for ALL to see. In my opinion He was NOT specifically as other children were but at the same time blended in with all the others.

Wasn't He guilty of teaching in the Synagogue at an early age? With all the learned men of his time found in a state of astonishment at His teachings?

Accordingly, do you think He cried as a babe just to get attention? I don't hardly think so as that would indicate a selfish motive on His part..., even as an infant. He was God!!!

 

[T Alan]

When Jesus was a baby did he cry?
When Jesus was a baby did he cry to get what he wanted?
Is a baby crying to get what they want a form of manipulation?
Did Jesus manipulate His mother in this manner?

Huh?

What difference does it make?

I wonder if..., ...uh, if Jesus had a tricycle would he have rode it?
Did Jesus ever suffer from sunburn?
Did he ever choke while eating a lamb chop?
Did Jesus ever think girls were pretty?

...I think Jesus was overcome with being rejected and otherwise cried a lot.

I believe the answer to all your muses are yes except the "overcome with being rejected" Some things were obviously in childhood and some in adulthood. That is to show Jesus was fully man. No temptation has overtaken you except that which is "COMMON" to man. Were all the same in that respect but He never sinned.

THanks for stepping out with your pondering's many would be ashamed to admit to them.

 

[Baptist Believer]

@Baptist Believer..., I'm not trying to suggest anything that might be contrary to your image of Jesus.

Well I'm trying to have a discussion of an important topic. I don't mind having my views challenged - that's a good thing. We need to be careful with our "images of Jesus" because they can become idols whether it is a mental image or a physical image.

To me, I don't really care if He grew up as a normal child or not.

It's pretty clear He grew up in a normal context for His era, but He was certainly an extraordinary child.

He was God the Spirit manifested in the flesh for ALL to see. In my opinion He was NOT specifically as other children were but at the same time blended in with all the others.

I can agree with that. People thought of Him as "the carpenter's son."

Wasn't He guilty of teaching in the Synagogue at an early age? With all the learned men of his time found in a state of astonishment at His teachings?

That was at 12 years old, in Jerusalem at the Temple. (Luke 2:46-48)

Accordingly, do you think He cried as a babe just to get attention? I don't hardly think so as that would indicate a selfish motive on His part..., even as an infant. He was God!!!

I consider it as approximately the same thing as Jesus asking three of His closest disciples to watch and pray with Him in Gethsemane. His desire for companionship is human (and frankly, part of God's eternal nature), not sinful.

 

[HAMel]

Well I'm trying to have a discussion of an important topic. I don't mind having my views challenged - that's a good thing. We need to be careful with our "images of Jesus" because they can become idols whether it is a mental image or a physical image.

Baptist Believer, I really don't consider this an important topic nor am I challenging your views. In fact, I've never heard anyone ever ask about His childhood. To me, it's not an "important topic" as I fail to see any relevance or connection to His mission here on earth.

Did He wear a long robe or a short robe? Wear sandals as a kid or go barefooted. How long was His hair? The questions about His childhood could go on for a day or two. I simply don't see any relevance.

...no harm intended.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Baptist Believer, I really don't consider this an important topic nor am I challenging your views. In fact, I've never heard anyone ever ask about His childhood. To me, it's not an "important topic" as I fail to see any relevance or connection to His mission here on earth.

I find it astounding that the Incarnation is not considered an important topic.

Did He wear a long robe or a short robe? Wear sandals as a kid or go barefooted. How long was His hair?

Have you noticed that no one has asked questions about fashion or hairstyle? We have been trying to talk about what is looks like to be made in the image of God without the corruption of sin.

That understand provides for us an example for us to strive for.

 

[HAMel]

Have at it Baptist Believer. :thumbs:

 

[Zaac]

I find it astounding that the Incarnation is not considered an important topic.


Have you noticed that no one has asked questions about fashion or hairstyle? We have been trying to talk about what is looks like to be made in the image of God without the corruption of sin.

That understand provides for us an example for us to strive for.

Then why not focus on the example He gave during His ministry that scripture covers in detail as opposed to guessing about the previous 30 years???

We've got a full picture of what it looks like to be made in the image of God without the corruption of sin in the Gospel accounts.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Then why not focus on the example He gave during His ministry that scripture covers in detail as opposed to guessing about the previous 30 years???

I have been. But I'm also taking into account the childhood narrative - as limited as it is - as well as Luke's statement that Jesus grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and humankind. Everything that is in the Gospel accounts is useful and we should be curious.

When I was a kid in Sunday School, I had a Sunday School teacher tell the story of Jesus going to the Temple when He was 12. The way she told the story (because she always had to tell the stories for their moral value - like so much of evangelicism), she taught that it was fine for Jesus to speak with the great Jewish leaders, but He should have stayed with the group and told His parents where He was. She was obviously coming at it from the view of a parent. That left the distinct impression that Jesus was disobedient to His parents. I'm sure that's the way Mary and Joseph felt, but is that the correct perspective? I don't think so. Unfortunately, this has led people into the idea that since the Gospels don't talk about Jesus' teen years, that He was probably quite a hellion - I have actually heard this from a lecturer in a theology seminar oriented toward working with teenagers from a visiting Baptist professor. As you might imagine, that didn't go over well with many of us. There are others who ate it up and probably have a lowered view of Christ.

We've got a full picture of what it looks like to be made in the image of God without the corruption of sin in the Gospel accounts.

Yes. Why do you want to limit thoughtful and respectful meditation on part of Luke's gospel then? Was Luke wrong in gathering and presenting that information for us?

 

[Revmitchell]

Yes. Why do you want to limit thoughtful and respectful meditation on part of Luke's gospel then? Was Luke wrong in gathering and presenting that information for us?

When that thoughtful meditation goes beyond what is actually said and begins to rely in inference then we run into theological problems. It is exactly what cals do that leads them astray so severely, it is what has lead to the heretical hypothesis theory, it is what allows for the questioning of the truthfulness of Genesis. People need to slow their brains down a bit and learn to be ok with the idea that sometimes we just do not know.

 

[Zaac]

I have been. But I'm also taking into account the childhood narrative - as limited as it is - as well as Luke's statement that Jesus grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and humankind. Everything that is in the Gospel accounts is useful and we should be curious.

We can't even adhere to the Jesus we got in 3 1/2 years. :laugh: So what is curiosity about the previous 30 gonna do? Was the character of an immutable God any different during the 30 years before He started His earthly ministry? If not, what do we need to know about the 30 that wasn't amplified in the 3 1/2?

When I was a kid in Sunday School, I had a Sunday School teacher tell the story of Jesus going to the Temple when He was 12. The way she told the story (because she always had to tell the stories for their moral value - like so much of evangelicism), she taught that it was fine for Jesus to speak with the great Jewish leaders, but He should have stayed with the group and told His parents where He was. She was obviously coming at it from the view of a parent. That left the distinct impression that Jesus was disobedient to His parents. I'm sure that's the way Mary and Joseph felt, but is that the correct perspective? I don't think so. Unfortunately, this has led people into the idea that since the Gospels don't talk about Jesus' teen years, that He was probably quite a hellion - I have actually heard this from a lecturer in a theology seminar oriented toward working with teenagers from a visiting Baptist professor. As you might imagine, that didn't go over well with many of us. There are others who ate it up and probably have a lowered view of Christ.

Sounds like people want to take away His deity.

Yes. Why do you want to limit thoughtful and respectful meditation on part of Luke's gospel then? Was Luke wrong in gathering and presenting that information for us?

I'm not trying to limit it. I just think it's distracting to spend too much time on what wasn't written when we already don't spend enough time on what was written.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I just think it's distracting to spend too much time on what wasn't written when we already don't spend enough time on what was written.

Speak for yourself on that issue.

I've noticed that Baptists spend a whole lot of time with Paul, a fair amount of time with John, and pretty much ignore Jesus in the synoptic Gospels. Maybe your experience is different. I hope it is.

 

[OldRegular]

When Jesus was a baby did he cry?

Why is it wrong or sinful or disobedient for a baby to cry!

When Jesus was a baby did he cry to get what he wanted?

Most normal children cry when they are hungry. There is nothing wrong with that because that is the way they communicate unless they are born speaking. Do you tell your spouse when you get hungry?

Is a baby crying to get what they want a form of manipulation?

Depends on the age of the child but I doubt a baby is sufficiently knowledgeable to manipulate anyone!

Did Jesus manipulate His mother in this manner?

Not if you are going to call it sin.

The bible is silent on Jesus' childhood.

Probably to prevent meaningless speculation. Jesus Christ lived a sinless life otherwise Scripture would not say:

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[OldRegular]

To me, I don't really care if He grew up as a normal child or not. He was God the Spirit manifested in the flesh for ALL to see.

God is three persons. Which person are you talking about?

 

[corndogggy]

Some of the "lost" books such as I think the Infancy Gospel of Thomas addresses this. There was one such story where a younger Jesus was playing on the roof of a house with some friends and tossed this kid over the side, killing him. Of course, he just brought the kid back to life. And of course lots of people are saying in their head "but that book wasn't INSPIRED" and whatnot right about now.

 

[corndogggy]

Actually, to be honest, Jesus WAS disobedient. Luke 2:41-52.

How exactly is purposely staying behind after a pilgrimage and basically disappearing for three days considered to be what good little boys do?

"Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing."

 

[HankD]

Actually, to be honest, Jesus WAS disobedient. Luke 2:41-52.

How exactly is purposely staying behind after a pilgrimage and basically disappearing for three days considered to be what good little boys do?

"Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing."

I believe the fault lies with Mary and Joseph, and not Jesus.

Just my opinion.

HankD

 

[OldRegular]

Disobedience equals sin. Jesus did not sin. It is useless and futile to try to impose any of that on Jesus. Had he sinned He would not have been God and would not be qualified to go to the cross and our faith would be in vein.

I agree!

There is nothing intellectual or edifying about dumb questions like is in the op.

I might not have put it just that way but like many on this board there is nothing edifying, either to Jesus Christ or the participants.