Was Judas ever saved

[ReformedBaptist]

Why does it matter if Judas worked any miracles? We can't know for sure, and even if we could say he did, we can't know for sure whether it was by the temporary authority of Christ, permanent authority of Christ, or by the authority of satan. So what's the point?

Ummm...to fill up a somewhat boring day?

 

[lbaker]

Actually, there is no evidence that the disciples performed any miracles until after the ascension of Christ.

I would think that the disciples would have done as Jesus commanded, and He did tell them to go and heal the sick, raise the dead, etc.

From Matthew 10:
7As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.

We also have the "72" coming back and remarking on the miracles they have performed.

From Luke 10:
17The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."

18He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

So, unless the 72 are lying, and the 12 simply ignored Jesus' command. We do have them working miracles.

Les

 

[Accountable]

Jesus calls Judas a diablos, a false acuser, a slanderer.

Jesus called Peter a devil too. Is he lost?

 

[npetreley]

Ummm...to fill up a somewhat boring day?

Oh, okay. I'm down wit dat, dude.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

They did not say the demons submit, but rather 'Even the devils are
subject...'

There is a difference.

Jesus went on to say that the disciples were not to be happy that the spirits are subject to you...

Where is the miracle recorded?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Jesus called Peter a devil too. Is he lost?

BZZZZZTTTTTT. Wrong


Jesus did not call Peter a devil. He was speaking to that force that had Peter say the words he did... not Peter himself.

A devil cannot be blessed. God does not give his blessings to devils. Peter was called blessed by Jesus.

 

[Accountable]

Pay no attention to the one who claimed Judas was saved. He has not studied the Scriptures thoroughly regarding the matter.

As Reformed pointed out, Judas was the son of perdition. Another pointed out that Judas did not call Jesus Lord, but only recognized Him as a teacher.

Judas was not saved. Plain and simple.

Scary. Do you have my house bugged or something? How do you know my study patterns and time in study on this subject? I have thouroughly studied this out. I have also taught it in schools of learning.

Judas was the son of perdition and Peter was Satan. Tell me what makes one worse than the other. Or do you stand behind your attemot of theology by placing Peter with the unbelievers also?

 

[lbaker]

Well SFIC if you want to assume that the 12 disobeyed a direct command from Jesus to go out and heal, etc. I guess I will just have to accept that there are (at least) two opinons on that point.

At least we did get two recantations out of this thread anyway - lol.

It helped my humility a good bit, I reckon. I am really proud of how humble I am now.

Les

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Scary. Do you have my house bugged or something? How do you know my study patterns and time in study on this subject? I have thouroughly studied this out. I have also taught it in schools of learning.

Judas was the son of perdition and Peter was Satan. Tell me what makes one worse than the other. Or do you stand behind your attemot of theology by placing Peter with the unbelievers also?

Apparently you have not studied it out enough. As to teaching it in schools of learning, they also teach false doctrines in other so-called schools of learning.

Peter was not satan. Judas was not saved. Get over it.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Well SFIC if you want to assume that the 12 disobeyed a direct command from Jesus to go out and heal, etc. I guess I will just have to accept that there are (at least) two opinons on that point.

At least we did get two recantations out of this thread anyway - lol.

It helped my humility a good bit, I reckon. I am really proud of how humble I am now.

Les

There is no record that they performed miracles until after Christ's ascension.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Scary. Do you have my house bugged or something? How do you know my study patterns and time in study on this subject? I have thouroughly studied this out. I have also taught it in schools of learning.

Judas was the son of perdition and Peter was Satan. Tell me what makes one worse than the other. Or do you stand behind your attemot of theology by placing Peter with the unbelievers also?

All the Calvinists of the world have been conducting continuing surveilance on Arminians since the days of the Remonstrants. It's a global conspiracy actually.

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Accountable]

BZZZZZTTTTTT. Wrong


Jesus did not call Peter a devil. He was speaking to that force that had Peter say the words he did... not Peter himself.

A devil cannot be blessed. God does not give his blessings to devils. Peter was called blessed by Jesus.

????????? So you are not fundamental? You choose when to take something literal and when it doesn't fit your taste you spiritualize it.

Sorry, no go. Jesus said to Peter, Get behind me Satan. (Sorry for writing devil. I was thinking too fast!)
Noforce mentioned, just plain old Peter.

 

[npetreley]

All the Calvinists of the world have been conducting continuing surveilance on Arminians since the days of the Remonstrants. It's a global conspiracy actually.

:smilewinkgrin:

This is absolutely UNTRUE. Oh, and webdog, stop picking your nose. It's unsanitary.

 

[Accountable]

Well SFIC if you want to assume that the 12 disobeyed a direct command from Jesus to go out and heal, etc. I guess I will just have to accept that there are (at least) two opinons on that point.

At least we did get two recantations out of this thread anyway - lol.

It helped my humility a good bit, I reckon. I am really proud of how humble I am now.

Les

Something interesting about the way SFIC thinks. Since it doesn't say it in certain words, he will not accept the verses. You know, I wonder if there were any in the first church like SFIC? If so, they wouldn't have believed the virgin birth of Christ because Paul dosen't say anything about it.

 

[lbaker]

Jesus did not call Peter a devil. He was speaking to that force that had Peter say the words he did... not Peter himself.

Where is your evidence, from scripture, that Jesus was speaking to Satan and not to Peter on that specific occasion? I don't believe there is a passage that states that.

My understanding is that Jesus was calling Peter Satan because Peter was tempting Jesus as Satan had done.

Les

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Accountable,

If you indeed are teaching such false doctrines as Peter being satan, you truly need to study the Word of God further.

Because of the closeness he felt to Christ, Peter could not humanly accept the fact that Christ would have to die. Satan seized on Peter’s emotional tendencies and influenced him to rebuke Christ as he did. Christ recognized Satan’s influence.

It was not Peter Christ was calling satan. Christ was speaking to satan himself.

 

[Accountable]

Apparently you have not studied it out enough. As to teaching it in schools of learning, they also teach false doctrines in other so-called schools of learning.

Peter was not satan. Judas was not saved. Get over it.

Maybe I'll take your aproach to theology....... The Bible doesn't say that Mary, the mother of Jesus died. Maybe these catholics are correct... maybe she is popping up everywhere and talking to folks...... maybe she lives in a retirement home in West Palm Beach Florida. Come on. I'm not going to "take your word for it." Prove to me he was not saved.
To you believe in repentace after one commits sin? Or does God not accept repentance from all who believe?
By the way, you still haven't proven to me that Jesus was not speaking to Peter IN THE SAME WAY that he spoke to Judas.

 

[Accountable]

All the Calvinists of the world have been conducting continuing surveilance on Arminians since the days of the Remonstrants. It's a global conspiracy actually.

:smilewinkgrin:

I'm starting to believe it!:laugh: :laugh:

 

[Accountable]

Accountable,

If you indeed are teaching such false doctrines as Peter being satan, you truly need to study the Word of God further.

Because of the closeness he felt to Christ, Peter could not humanly accept the fact that Christ would have to die. Satan seized on Peter’s emotional tendencies and influenced him to rebuke Christ as he did. Christ recognized Satan’s influence.

It was not Peter Christ was calling satan. Christ was speaking to satan himself.

Your starting to get somewhere, maybe. But then again maybe not.
Again I state that Jesus spoke to Peter THE SAME WAY He spoke to Judas.
You may choose to ignore this but it is still there.

 

[lbaker]

Because of the closeness he felt to Christ, Peter could not humanly accept the fact that Christ would have to die. Satan seized on Peter’s emotional tendencies and influenced him to rebuke Christ as he did. Christ recognized Satan’s influence.

It was not Peter Christ was calling satan. Christ was speaking to satan himself.

You are doing an awful lot of reading between the lines to come up with that.

I don't think Jesus meant that Peter was literally Satan, or possessed by Satan. It was more like when my wife gets tired of me being ornery and calls me an "old devil" sometimes, except under much more serious circumstances. Jesus was calling Peter Satan to point out how he was being a stumbling block and acting like Satan.

Les