was the Flood local or worldwide?

[Yeshua1]

Then again, perhaps BEFORE the flood the highest mt may have been only a few hundred feet, and places like the marianas trench only a few hundred ft deep????

Also, with all the legends of "local" floods, how many local floods does it take to make it world-wide????

IOW, a WW flood would have had a tremendous effect in re-shaping the earth's surface from what it was before the flood.

Just some food for thought.:thumbs:

Indeed, there would have been vast uphevals and typography changes during Fllood, so the assumptions of there being layers millions of years old, long glacier ages, dating because gases and decay was same etc, just NOT true!

 

[quantumfaith]

the thing though is that the binble seems to indicate that there was a firmimite/canopy over the earth, where vast quanties of water was being stored up for releasing, as in time of the ark, no on e evr saw rain!

Also, there appeared to be vast quanities of waters stored underground, in oceans bottoms, so would have had big dekuge from BOTh canopy spliting open above, and water released down below!

The canopy theory has been dealt with quite effectively with solid science. That theory, if memory serves correctly, comes from the "firmament" which meaning other than a "canopy"

From the Creation Research Institute

Canopy theory. This is not a direct teaching of Scripture, so there is no place for dogmatism. Also, no suitable model has been developed that holds sufficient water; but some creationists suggest a partial canopy may have been present. For CMI’s current opinion, see Noah’s Flood—Where did the water come from?.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sort of.

Yes, current information indicates mankind (however we started) began (that is the oldest findings of fossils and artifacts) in the African Continent around the Rift Valley area, if my memory serves correctly. Mankind moved out from Africa in one or two 'waves', depending on which information seems more correct.

However, the information suggests the first humans existed about 150,000 years ago and started exiting Africa 55,000 to 60,000 years ago. This from a report dated in May of 2007. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070509161829.htm)

Now here's something I want you to think about and discuss with yourself: The YEC movement in general adhere to the chronology of James Ussher (or Usher, depending) Bishop of Armagh in Ireland. The Bishop's chronology was based on a 'literal' reading of Genesis, with additional information based on the 'literal' lists of genealogies in the Old Testament.

That comes out to 4004 BC as the year of Creation. So - according to Bishop Ussher, the Universe is now (as of Jan 2014) 6,018 years old. According to one 'timeline' (http://www.scribd.com/doc/35220255/Timeline-Chart-bishop-Ussher) that creation date has been revised to 4175 BC, making the Universe 6,189 years old.

Here's the question: How do you justify (what caused you to think or believe) the Universe could be older than that? And, what causes you to think or believe the Universe is no older than '... a few hundred thousands...' of years?

50-150,000 years for man WAY different than millions of yaers as evolutionists hold...

And I don't find ANY refercing in Bible to support usher as the definite date, but also see in scientific facts , no way can be extremed aged either!

 

[InTheLight]

Which bst fits the bible, and is it really that important?

You've already asked this question before, under a different screen name:


http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1709915&postcount=1

 

[Yeshua1]

The canopy theory has been dealt with quite effectively with solid science. That theory, if memory serves correctly, comes from the "firmament" which meaning other than a "canopy"

From the Creation Research Institute

Canopy theory. This is not a direct teaching of Scripture, so there is no place for dogmatism. Also, no suitable model has been developed that holds sufficient water; but some creationists suggest a partial canopy may have been present. For CMI’s current opinion, see Noah’s Flood—Where did the water come from?.

have you ever heard of the underwater supplies that released from ocean bottom into surface?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Yeshua, you're avoiding the question.

Here's the question: How do you justify (what caused you to think or believe) the Universe could be older than that? And, what causes you to think or believe the Universe is no older than '... a few hundred thousands...' of years?

50-150,000 years for man WAY different than millions of yaers as evolutionists hold...

Actually, that is the time period for existence of humans; not for the age of the Earth. Nor was that the question.

And I don't find ANY refercing in Bible to support usher as the definite date, but also see in scientific facts , no way can be extremed aged either!

Ah. So you're a 'Young Earth' believer, but not based on Bishop Ussher, who is the main source for the Young Earth theory. So where DID you get your possible age of the Earth? Is it based on something, or did you just pull a date from the air?

 

[quantumfaith]

have you ever heard of the underwater supplies that released from ocean bottom into surface?

Certainly, there are VAST volumes of subterranean water. That is no mystery. If the flood was indeed global, it stands to reason that release of that could very well have been part of the deluge.

 

[Yeshua1]

Actually, that is the time period for existence of humans; not for the age of the Earth. Nor was that the question.

Ah. So you're a 'Young Earth' believer, but not based on Bishop Ussher, who is the main source for the Young Earth theory. So where DID you get your possible age of the Earth? Is it based on something, or did you just pull a date from the air?

believe have read math models that showed that if we extrapolate for births/death based upon poplation increse/decreasing due to birth rtes/death rates from natural disasters/wars etc, farthest back we can get tohave a pair of first humans is about 47,000 years ago!

 

[quantumfaith]

believe have read math models that showed that if we extrapolate for births/death based upon poplation increse/decreasing due to birth rtes/death rates from natural disasters/wars etc, farthest back we can get tohave a pair of first humans is about 47,000 years ago!

Not sure about "that math" as I have never come across that proposal. However, 47000 years ago is much longer than most (if not all) YEC proponents are willing to accept.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not sure about "that math" as I have never come across that proposal. However, 47000 years ago is much longer than most (if not all) YEC proponents are willing to accept.

I would see 50,000 as the very outer age of creation in past, but probably closer to say 10,000. just do not see that ussher date as being "inspired date' from God!

 

[InTheLight]

I would see 50,000 as the very outer age of creation in past, but probably closer to say 10,000. just do not see that ussher date as being "inspired date' from God!

So where DID you get your possible age of the Earth? Is it based on something, or did you just pull a date from the air?--Archie the Preacher

 

[Yeshua1]

So where DID you get your possible age of the Earth? Is it based on something, or did you just pull a date from the air?--Archie the Preacher

That would be consistent age , assuming for worldwideflodding, and the current observations of the universe!

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Okay.

I would see 50,000 as the very outer age of creation in past, but probably closer to say 10,000. just do not see that ussher date as being "inspired date' from God!

Do you notice the discrepancy between the 'background' (taking 47,000 years to get to current population) and your 'closer to say 10,000'? I'm not trying to pick on you, but 'consistency' in thinking is important.

Does the 47,000 year estimate allow for Noah's Flood killing off nearly all the Earth's population?

By the way, I agree the Ussher date is unreliable. He did a lot of work and in good faith, but he based his calculations on misunderstood information.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Aquifers

Certainly, there are VAST volumes of subterranean water. That is no mystery. If the flood was indeed global, it stands to reason that release of that could very well have been part of the deluge.

Quantum, are you referring to aquifers?

Do you know of any mechanism that would cause an aquifer to expel the water contained and hold it on the surface of the Earth?

 

[quantumfaith]

Quantum, are you referring to aquifers?

Do you know of any mechanism that would cause an aquifer to expel the water contained and hold it on the surface of the Earth?

Yes, I suppose so...that I am referring to aquifers. I have no specified geologic or hydrolic training or education. Thus, I cannot say any "natural" reason for aquifers to release the water contained within them.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Aquifers...

Yes, I suppose so...that I am referring to aquifers. I have no specified geologic or hydrolic training or education. Thus, I cannot say any "natural" reason for aquifers to release the water contained within them.

Okay. I don't either (specific training) and I have no specific thought on the subject other than well water must typically be pumped from underground. Some areas of some aquifers are 'artesian' where underground pressure pushes water to the surface, but this isn't the rule around the world. So, IF the underground water came to the surface, something had to make it move.

 

[quantumfaith]

Okay. I don't either (specific training) and I have no specific thought on the subject other than well water must typically be pumped from underground. Some areas of some aquifers are 'artesian' where underground pressure pushes water to the surface, but this isn't the rule around the world. So, IF the underground water came to the surface, something had to make it move.

Agreed, we both know that would not be a big effort on the part of God to "make it so". I have always tended to a global flood, but I have read many good positions arguing for a more localized flood.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Worldwide.

 

[OldRegular]

Certainly, there are VAST volumes of subterranean water. That is no mystery. If the flood was indeed global, it stands to reason that release of that could very well have been part of the deluge.

I believe Scripture supports that!

Genesis 7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

 

[quantumfaith]

I believe Scripture supports that!

Genesis 7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Thanks OR, I am (was) aware of that, the reason I brought it up. Thank YOU for the reference.