Was There Alcohol in the Wine...

Because it has "wine" in it. Wine is alcoholic. Deductive reasoning...

 

Pepsi has nothing to do with the false accusations made about the disciples.

 

It has everything to do with it. You are claiming the disciples were falsely accused of getting drunk off of new wine. If new wine isn't alcoholic...that is foolishness, and makes no sense.

 

Bad deductive reasoning nonetheless. Not letting the bible define it's own terms is a bad way to interpret scripture.

 

Better yet...to define "wine" as anything but alcoholic is a bad way to interpret Scripture.

 

Where do you get interpretive principle from? Ernest and Julio Gallo?

 

A blessing from God will not bring sorrow with it. Alcoholic wine always brings sorrow with it.

 

James, you look like you've had a little too much wine in your avitar. :laugh: :laugh:

 

Now I'm going to have to put on my angry countenance again

 

Be ye angry and sin not...

 

Didn't mean to make you mad! At least you look sober! :laugh: :wavey:

 

Hosea 4:11-Harlotry, wine and new wine take away the understanding.

Joel 1:5-Awake, drunkards, and weep; And wail, all you wine drinkers, On account of the sweet wine that is cut off from your mouth.

Tirosh and asis (new wine) are used here. It seem to me that it is intoxicating. Why is it so hard to grasp that the ancients drank an alcoholic beverage? Alcohol is not sinful; the abuse of it is.

 

Peach, I'm not going to argue that the term new wine is never used to mean alcoholic wine, although I could probably argue that harlotry gets you drunk in the same manner as gluttony and drinking too much juice. But to say that wine is always alcoholic flys in the face of Isaiah 65:8 and Proverbs 3:10. That is no alcoholic beverage being pressed out of grapes, and yet the bible calls this substance new wine.

 

Wine, in some verses is called a blessing. Wine in others is called a curse.

Can the same wine that makes glad the hearts of men also be venom of asps?

Can the same wine be a symbol of the mercies of salvation and also the outpouring of the wrath of God?

Can it be a picture of the joy of piety and at the same time of the pleasures of sin?

Can it be the same wine that is permitted in the Lord's Supper as the wine that is forbidden to look at when it is effervescing?


I don't believe they are the same wines.

 

Sex is a gift from God to married couples. Sex is also abused by adulterers and fornicators in which God hates.

I don't believe this is the same SEX. :laugh:

 

OK, my turn, Since two moderators have already given one warning and one hint that the thread could be closed, I'll try and ask something related to the OP.

(Oh, BTW, I've read the opinions as to alcohol at least a couple of times in threads on the BB. )

But that was not the question. So I'll ask one.

Was the wine in the drink offering "new wine" or "old wine", or does the Bible not say which?

Just that simple question!

Ed

P.S., FTR, I have gotten hold of some soft drinks (colas) more that one time, that had an obvious alcohol 'twang'. All colas, at least, have a miniscule amount of alcohol as does leavened bread, yogurt, apple juice, etc. Unless pasteurized this process continues until the yeast or other culture is killed or dies. The process of leavening by yeast produces a certain amount of alcohol, naturally, as does the culture in yogurt.

 

Ed,

In Numbers 6:20 is the only verse that the word wine is used with the phrase 'drink offering'.

There are 29 instances of the phrase 'drink offering' in the Old Testament. None of these speak of the drink offering being new or old. Although, one instance speaks of it being strong, so that would indicate it being mixed (something added to strengthen it), or old.

 

Scripture gives a distinct difference between wine and juice in regards to the vow a Nazarite takes by separating grape juice from wine. Wine is always wine...alcoholic.
Your argument is like saying not every reference to chocolate milk is always referring to milk. It doens't make sense.

 

Made sense to me. Proverbs 3:10 and Isaiah 65:8 are speaking of nonfermented wine.

 

Tell that to Isaiah. For some reason he thinks there is wine in a grape.:thumbs: