Was There Alcohol in the Wine...

[npetreley]

hilarious.

You think that's funny -- wait until you hear/read this. One of the things I made on my own was yogurt. I made a new batch almost every 2-3 days. The process is the same principle as wine. You heat the milk until you kill off all the natural bacterial microbes. Then you add your own culture and let it sit at a warm temperature that grows the yogurt bacteria well. After about 12 or more hours you've got yogurt (let it sit longer for a tangier yogurt).

Well, I had strep throat and couldn't get rid of it. It only occurred to me after a month or so that I was coughing when making yogurt. In retrospect, I bet I was growing strep culture along with my yogurt and recycling it into my system. Once I stopped making yogurt, it was gone in about a week.

Lesson: wear a surgical mask if you want to make yogurt.

 

[GLipscomb48]

My undergraduate degree is a B.A. in Biblical Studies and History of Ideas (a double major). In the History of Ideas we read all (or most) of the great books of the western world. We read primary sources not secondary sources written about the primary sources. We read lots of Aristotle, and Pliny, etc. I do not recall reading about grape juice being preserved for 100 years without fermentation etc. Can you give me the specific reference to Aristotle's or Pliny's works that mention this subject? If so please give me the title, book chapter and/or section numbers, and the paragraph and/or line numbers so I can read this information for myself.

I do not have these books by Pliny and Aristotle on hand, but have read their accounts of fresh grape juice being preserved. Not for as long as Josephus recorded. It was Josephus who recorded the wine, fruits and vegetables that were nearly a century in age.

 

[npetreley]

With all respect, the claimed addresses of these "two brand new members" are nowhere near those of the"two grape-juicers" who have been given a 'vacation', so I suggest this 'implication' is a bit less than honorable, absent any real evidence.

A claimed address is not the same thing as an actual IP address. Anybody in New Jersey can claim he's from Podunk, Iowa, and the only ones who can know where he is really located are those who have access to the IP addresses. Absent the IP addresses, I will not make any accusations. However, I do find it an amazing coincidence, and I won't say otherwise just to be polite.

 

[Bible-boy]

I do not have these books by Pliny and Aristotle on hand, but have read their accounts of fresh grape juice being preserved. Not for as long as Josephus recorded. It was Josephus who recorded the wine, fruits and vegetables that were nearly a century in age.

I don't mean to push the issue,but if you are going to site a source then you need to be prepared to actually provide the source references, otherwise it does not recommend your line of argumentation. Can you track the references down and provide them later?

 

[GLipscomb48]

Bible-boy,

I will endeavor to get that information for you. I have to go out later today.

 

[npetreley]

I do not have these books by Pliny and Aristotle on hand, but have read their accounts of fresh grape juice being preserved. Not for as long as Josephus recorded. It was Josephus who recorded the wine, fruits and vegetables that were nearly a century in age.

If I recall correctly, Josephus didn't record anything about wine. He said there was fresh fruit that was preserved for 100 years. And if you believe that, I have a bridge I'd be glad to sell you.

Regardless, one unsubstantiated fable about a single case where fruit was preserved for 100 years does not tell you anything about wine, nor does it tell you what people did to preserve things as a rule. We have plenty of historians who record that it was common practice for people to use fermented wine to purify water, and that was the most common daily drink. These accounts outnumber Josephus' single "Ripley's Believe It Or Not" account by the thousands.

By the way, Josephus had almost nothing to say about Jesus, and some people even question whether or not the mentions of Jesus were added later by someone other than Josephus. If you want to place so much stock in what Josephus has to say, you'd have to conclude that Jesus didn't make much of an impact in His time.

 

[Bible-boy]

Bible-boy,

I will endeavor to get that information for you. I have to go out later today.

Thanks,

I love an excuse to use my Great Books of the Western World set or to pull out my old college textbooks!:thumbs:

 

[npetreley]

Thanks,

I love an excuse to use my Great Books of the Western World set or to pull out my old college textbooks!:thumbs:

I'll let someone else provide the references, but Pliny talked about a drink that was made by mixing water with grape syrup. It wasn't specifically in reference to what the Jews did with grapes in the times of the OT. I don't know what Aristotle wrote, if anything, about grape drinks.

 

[GLipscomb48]

Question? Can a blessing from God to man be a curse to man?

I say not.

 

[npetreley]

Question? Can a blessing from God to man be a curse to man?

I say not.

I guess you've never dated anyone.


(ducks)

 

[GLipscomb48]

who says the date that turned out to be bad was from God?

Many times people step out before God.

 

[webdog]

Question? Can a blessing from God to man be a curse to man?

I say not.

So...nobody ever abuses food or sex (both blessings from God)?

 

[rsr]

This thread is about the following:

Was there alcohol in the wine that was used in the 'drink offering'?

What did the wine (in the drink offering) represent?

It is not about alcohol and wine in general; neither is it about the done-to-death subject of drinking alcohol.

In addition, is is not about the status of posters who are not here to post now.

Keep to the original topics or the thread will be closed.

Thank you.

rsr

 

[npetreley]

So...nobody ever abuses food or sex (both blessings from God)?

Thank you. That was my point.

 

[npetreley]

Keep to the original topics or the thread will be closed.

I don't have the right to ask because I didn't start the thread. But I get the impression the original poster's question was answered. I'd love it if you closed the thread.

 

[AresMan]

Was this wine alcoholic?

Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine[H3196], or for strong drink[H7941], or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

From Strong's concordance:

H3196
יין
yayin
yah'-yin
From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber].

H7941
שׁכר
shêkâr
shay-kawr'
From H7937; an intoxicant, that is, intensely alcoholic liquor: - strong drink, + drunkard, strong wine.

 

[npetreley]

Ahhh, what did Strong know? He was obviously a drunk and a heathen.

 

[Snitzelhoff]

Ahhh, what did Strong know? He was obviously a drunk and a heathen.

He was clearly just trying to justify his sin. :laugh:

 

[Bible-boy]

If the thread does end up being closed I would still like it if someone would PM me with the references to Aristotle's and Pliny's works regarding the preservation of unfermented grape juice. :thumbs:

 

[GLipscomb48]

Am doing that research Bible-boy and will email the info as soon as I get it together.:wavey: