Johnny One-Note vs. The Holy Bible.
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Washington Death Penalty Suspended By Governor Jay Inslee
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
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From article link:
The New Testament adds important context to the topic but doesn’t clearly instruct us one way or the other regarding the death penalty. The apostle Paul acknowledges that wielding “the sword” is a legitimate exercise of government authority—presumably he is referring to its duty to punish criminals, with violence if necessary. On the other hand, many of Jesus’ actions and words, such as his foiling of the execution of the adulterous woman, suggest that mercy and humility should stay society’s killing hand. And of course, no Christian is unaware of Jesus’ own experience with capital punishment: he was the ultimate innocent victim of the government’s sword wielded unjustly.
Because the New Testament’s gospel of grace is held to have fulfilled the Old Testament law, it is worth questioning whether Old Testament capital punishment—a powerful enforcer of that law—is a tool we should use today or whether it was appropriate only within the context of the Old Testament covenant. An over-arching theme of the New Testament is the undeserved forgiveness extended to us by a merciful God. As recipients of God’s grace, we are called to extend grace to others as well. How do we reconcile the need for justice with the importance of mercy and forgiveness? Do the requirements of justice trump the opportunity for mercy, or vice versa?
It would be much easier if God had chosen to clearly state one way or the other whether capital punishment is a moral responsibility for modern representative governments. But for His own reasons, He has not done so—which means we must continue to wrestle with Scripture, prayerfully try to discern the best course of action, and respect other Christians doing the same. Regardless of our conclusions, Christians must make sure that Christlike values—justice, humility, and grace—motivate us, rather than vengeance or hate; and whether Christians choose to support or oppose capital punishment, we are all called to make sure that it is carried out justly and does not target innocent people.
The New Testament adds important context to the topic but doesn’t clearly instruct us one way or the other regarding the death penalty. The apostle Paul acknowledges that wielding “the sword” is a legitimate exercise of government authority—presumably he is referring to its duty to punish criminals, with violence if necessary. On the other hand, many of Jesus’ actions and words, such as his foiling of the execution of the adulterous woman, suggest that mercy and humility should stay society’s killing hand. And of course, no Christian is unaware of Jesus’ own experience with capital punishment: he was the ultimate innocent victim of the government’s sword wielded unjustly.
Because the New Testament’s gospel of grace is held to have fulfilled the Old Testament law, it is worth questioning whether Old Testament capital punishment—a powerful enforcer of that law—is a tool we should use today or whether it was appropriate only within the context of the Old Testament covenant. An over-arching theme of the New Testament is the undeserved forgiveness extended to us by a merciful God. As recipients of God’s grace, we are called to extend grace to others as well. How do we reconcile the need for justice with the importance of mercy and forgiveness? Do the requirements of justice trump the opportunity for mercy, or vice versa?
It would be much easier if God had chosen to clearly state one way or the other whether capital punishment is a moral responsibility for modern representative governments. But for His own reasons, He has not done so—which means we must continue to wrestle with Scripture, prayerfully try to discern the best course of action, and respect other Christians doing the same. Regardless of our conclusions, Christians must make sure that Christlike values—justice, humility, and grace—motivate us, rather than vengeance or hate; and whether Christians choose to support or oppose capital punishment, we are all called to make sure that it is carried out justly and does not target innocent people.
As you know, I used to live in El Paso and went to the old Texas Western College, so we got to stick together against these Easterners....
One of the problems with the stoning of the woman was that the man was to be executed also. Secondly, this issue, as everyone knows, did not deal with murder, which is a special case.
Thirdly, Jesus said:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Exactly right! Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
By the way, can you now walk on Lake Michigan ice to the Lower Peninsula or do you need to use the bridge?
And you once said conservatives can't read big words.
I don't have to, and I know you will never answer anyone else's questions. You do not have a biblical leg to stand on. Call me any name you want to.
God gave us the death penalty, and commanded we use it. Jesus never did anything to change that. You do not have the authority to change God's word. You have completely failed in showing us the death penalty is unbiblical.
It was frozen over by the first of the year, but I wouldn't try it. Too much current under the bridge. The water is moving "downhill" from Superior to Gary, Indiana, so the top ice is never solid.
It sure looks good, from the Mighty Mac.
But the system here has executed innocent people and would have executed many more innocent people. Over 100 people have been released from death row through DNA evidence.
So, do you defend the system that we know is flawed?
I do not. Find a system whereby it is absolutely assured that no innocent person will be executed and I'll support you on this. If you cannot guarantee that none will be executed then join me in protecting the innocent.
Please do not ask others for scripture proof of their position if you are not willing or cannot do the same.
Should we obey God's word, or seek to correct his mistakes ?
That is not God's fault. It does not change his command.
I don't need to defend it. It is God's command.
That is not biblical, or rational. The innocent are protected when a killer meets his God-ordained end. You have not shown any different.
What do you mean by that question? I think that you are trying to say that we can't prove scientifically that anyone is guilty of anything and so therefore everyone should evade the death penalty. I support capital punishment and if you think that you are going to come to Indiana, CBT, and start murdering people I am going to tell the Governor about you.
Simple answer from you please. Is it alright occasionally that an innocent person be executed for a crime they did not commit, but were found guilty of committing. We know this has happened. Over 100 people have been released after being found guilty, given the death sentence and later proven innocent. And I did give a link showing we now know some innocents have been executed.
So, in your belief system, is it ok to have a system that occasionally executes an innocent person?
It isn't OK to change God's word over your perceived problems with it. Human action or inaction does not change God's commands. We are not in charge, he is. We should strive to obey.
Show me proof where saying the innocent should not be executed is changing God's word or where suspending executions in a flawed system so no one who is innocent will be executed is changing God's word.
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thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Show me where it says they shouldn't be. You can't. God's justice doesn't presume error, therefore it never entered into the minds of His inspired writers that it was possible. You also can't prove that man's courts have ever executed an innocent man, not beyond a shadow of doubt, which is the same standard by which they were convicted.
Gen 9:6
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed:for in the image of God made he man.
Ecc 8:11
11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
CAUSE AND EFFECT.
So it is all right with you if innocent people are executed?
Innocents have been executed.
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