Waterboarding was a war crime in WW2. What's changed?

[Bro. Curtis]

I said that because that is what the Bible says.

Yeah, I've seen you twist that to justify abortion. You say John the Baptist wasn't alive when he jumped in his mother's womb. It is a stance that compromises any "Christian" admonishments you spout off.

Beat "us over the heat" with Jesus. Wow, what a compliment and I do appreciate it. Is it wrong to show someone that what they are saying does not conform with the teachings of Jesus?

Show me where Jesus bans waterboarding. And don't give me the "love your enemies" quote. If you apply that to information gathering, then you must also believe it was a sin to stop the Japanese & German war machines. You cannot have it both ways.

The question comes down to this.....

Does Jesus teach us to be pacifists ?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

And you just gave the best reason why waterboarding and torture by the USA is the best recruiting tool the terrorists have ... and if we stop, as Obama says we have, it takes that tool away. Thanks for helping make that point so clearly.

Baloney. There were puhlenty of terrorist attacks on several nations before George W. Bush. There will be plenty after Obama.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Baloney. There were puhlenty of terrorist attacks on several nations before George W. Bush. There will be plenty after Obama.

Of course there were terrorists before Bush, there are terrorists now, there will be terrorist. Anyone knows that. We are not debating if terrorists exists or now, but that torture and waterboarding by the USA makes it easier to whip up hatred toward us and in turn to recruit more people to train as terrorists. It is elementary. Terror in return for terror breeds more terror.

 

[targus]

And you just gave the best reason why waterboarding and torture by the USA is the best recruiting tool the terrorists have

Proof please that waterboarding is a recruiting tool.

Previously you said this repeatedly about the war in Iraq.

When did the "best recruiting tool" change from the war in Iaq to waterboarding?

... and if we stop, as Obama says we have, it takes that tool away. Thanks for helping make that point so clearly.

Proof please that Obama saying "no waterboarding" has made a difference in terrorist recruiting.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Of course there were terrorists before Bush, there are terrorists now, there will be terrorist. Anyone knows that. We are not debating if terrorists exists or now, but that torture and waterboarding by the USA makes it easier to whip up hatred toward us and in turn to recruit more people to train as terrorists. It is elementary. Terror in return for terror breeds more terror.

More baloney. David cured terrorism for several generations. Dropping a nuke on Japan cured them. You win wars by being fiercer that your enemy is willing to be.

 

[Crabtownboy]

More baloney. David cured terrorism for several generations. Dropping a nuke on Japan cured them. You win wars by being fiercer that your enemy is willing to be.

You are changing topics again. The topic is terrorism using our use of torture to recruit followers. No question about it, it has been their greatest recruiting tool the last 8 years. Try to stay on topic if you can.

Show me where Jesus taught terror and torture is his way of dealing with enemies.

If you do not want to follow Jesus' hard teachings, be honest and say so.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Proof please that waterboarding is a recruiting tool.

Previously you said this repeatedly about the war in Iraq.

When did the "best recruiting tool" change from the war in Iaq to waterboarding?




Proof please that Obama saying "no waterboarding" has made a difference in terrorist recruiting.

I already did that and gave you a link.

Read the articles at: http://www.google.com/search?source..._enUS281US281&q=waterboarding+recruiting+tool

 

[Crabtownboy]

Yeah, I've seen you twist that to justify abortion. You say John the Baptist wasn't alive when he jumped in his mother's womb. It is a stance that compromises any "Christian" admonishments you spout off.



Show me where Jesus bans waterboarding. And don't give me the "love your enemies" quote. If you apply that to information gathering, then you must also believe it was a sin to stop the Japanese & German war machines. You cannot have it both ways.

The question comes down to this.....

Does Jesus teach us to be pacifists ?

1 Love you neighbor as yourself.
2 Turn the other cheek
3 Go the extra mile

How many do you want?

Did Jesus every say, "Go to war and kill your enemies?" I think not.

You said not to use the "love your enemy" quote. Why, was Jesus wrong? Some of his teachings are very hard.

 

[sag38]

It's pointless to debate with a bleeding heart. If they had their way we would have no guns in our homes depending on the mighty government to protect us (yeah right). The only people who would have weapons would be the criminals. We would be weak and defenseless (consider how Carter gutted the military). Had he been in power much longer we would have been speaking a Soviet dialect. Only through a strong military and an unwillingness to back down did we win the cold war. Bleeding hearts will be the demise of our country as their pacifism leads us deeper into the hands of our enemies. God help us!!

 

[JustChristian]

The article says... Unfortunately for the article, none of the guards were charged with waterboarding. In the case of Sawamura, he was charged with "[/SIZE][/FONT]water treatment which entailed forcing water down PWs throat and nostrils using among others a hose, tubes;" (citation previously provided).

Crabtownboy cites a wiki describing, "Lassiter classified the water cure as "orchestrated physical abuse",[85] and described the police technique as a "modern day variation of the method of water torture that was popular during the Middle Ages". The technique employed by the police involved either holding the head in water until almost drowning, or laying on the back and forcing water into the mouth or nostrils."

ABC, in a revealing article, describes waterboarding as "(t)he prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

Granted that is harsh but nothing as described in the war crimes indictment or in the Wiki article. The major difference is that introducing water into the mouths and noses of the person can induce drowning. Waterboarding can only simulate it.



It is not being disingenuous to consider facts in their proper context.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

Where is the indictment found?

 

[JustChristian]

Yes you have. You have said the baby isn't alive until the first breath. And if you can use our savior to beat us over the head about waterboarding, then I can certainly bring up abortion. It would be great if we could speak up as much, if not more, about the unborn's life that the treatment of combat enemies. Then I'll let you bring up Christ's name unchallenged.

This thread isn't about abortion. It's about the use of torture techniques by the United States military. You're off-target.

 

[JustChristian]

More baloney. David cured terrorism for several generations. Dropping a nuke on Japan cured them. You win wars by being fiercer that your enemy is willing to be.

In other words, you're arguing that might makes right> If the Nazi's had won WW2 that would have indicated that they were right?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You are changing topics again. The topic is terrorism using our use of torture to recruit followers. No question about it, it has been their greatest recruiting tool the last 8 years. Try to stay on topic if you can.

Show me where Jesus taught terror and torture is his way of dealing with enemies.

If you do not want to follow Jesus' hard teachings, be honest and say so.

Hogwash, every bit. Show me where David & Nehemiah were admonished for it's use. You can't, because they were not.

 

[Crabtownboy]

This thread isn't about abortion. It's about the use of torture techniques by the United States military. You're off-target.

You are right and that is what I've tried to tell him. There is no way a Christian can approve of torture and say he lives by Christ's teachings. None of us are perfect and none of us follow Christ and his teachings perfectly, but to approve of torture is a glaring mistake.

BroCurtis said: Hogwash, every bit. Show me where David & Nehemiah were admonished for it's use. You can't, because they were not.

Again you go off topic. This thread has nothing to do with the OT, nor are we living under the OT. Stay on topic, or is it you realize you have no let to stand on this one and still say you follow Christ?" The topic is terrorist using torture by the USA as a recruiting tool. It has been their most effective recrutiing tool. Go read the links I posted in other replies.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

1 Love you neighbor as yourself.
2 Turn the other cheek
3 Go the extra mile

How many do you want?

Did Jesus every say, "Go to war and kill your enemies?" I think not.

You said not to use the "love your enemy" quote. Why, was Jesus wrong? Some of his teachings are very hard.

So you must be saying our WWII actions were wrong, and Jesus taught us to lay down during war time. Is that what you are saying ?

 

[JustChristian]

Yeah, I've seen you twist that to justify abortion. You say John the Baptist wasn't alive when he jumped in his mother's womb. It is a stance that compromises any "Christian" admonishments you spout off.



Show me where Jesus bans waterboarding. And don't give me the "love your enemies" quote. If you apply that to information gathering, then you must also believe it was a sin to stop the Japanese & German war machines. You cannot have it both ways.

The question comes down to this.....

Does Jesus teach us to be pacifists ?

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

I know you reject this teaching of Jesus but here it is nonetheless.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Waterboarding isn't torture. And the two of you seem to only know one passage to back up your claim. If we did things your way, everyone would be speaking German.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

In other words, you're arguing that might makes right> If the Nazi's had won WW2 that would have indicated that they were right?

Nope. Read it again.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

This thread isn't about abortion. It's about the use of torture techniques by the United States military. You're off-target.

No it's not. It's about waterboarding. Your O/P was debunked in page one. You just cannot accept it.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You are right and that is what I've tried to tell him. There is no way a Christian can approve of torture and say he lives by Christ's teachings. None of us are perfect and none of us follow Christ and his teachings perfectly, but to approve of torture is a glaring mistake.




Again you go off topic. This thread has nothing to do with the OT, nor are we living under the OT. Stay on topic, or is it you realize you have no let to stand on this one and still say you follow Christ?" The topic is terrorist using torture by the USA as a recruiting tool. It has been their most effective recrutiing tool. Go read the links I posted in other replies.

Forget yer leftist links, I don't need them. I was fighting Muslim terrorists back when Carter was president. What did he do to recruit them ?