We Are Not Charged With...

[HAMel]

According to the mandate of the Great Commission, the Christian Community is NOT charged with "saving" the world..., so why are so many trying to do just that? Christians have been charged with spreading the Gospel. To tell everyone of Jesus.

Why then do churches and out-reach efforts begin with an attitude of trying to convert these folks?

No wonder we turn so many people off.

Last night our Pastor spoke about God's plan. He went into as much detail as the allotted time would allow bringing up many situations from the Bible reflecting that no matter what we do..., all things will be in God's time and in accordance with God's plan.

All you can do is "tell people" but you can't tell 'em much. So why are so many out there wasting their time, money and resources trying to cause conversions?

When the Lord called me for salvation He lead every step of the way.

 

[jonathan.borland]

I understand your point, but I think it's inconsequential. Anyway, so what do you make of Paul's terminology:

[HCSB] 1 Cor 9:22 "To the weak I became weak, in order to win the weak. I have become all things to all people, so that I may by every possible means save some."

 

[preacher4truth]

HAMel with your attitude, relax, you're in no danger of making any 'converts.'

 

[Berean]

Matt 28: 18-19
Seemingly 95 % of our emphasis is placed on "The Go" and 5% on "Make Disciples". This is where the cliche "Dip Em, Drip Em and Drop Em" originated. Is it any wonder that the majority of church members are lost and 85% of our young people are leaving the church.

 

[DaChaser1]

HAMel with your attitude, relax, you're in no danger of making any 'converts.'

Know of a church in my area that boasted that they had NO missionary budget, as God will save the Elect without their help, as its ALL of God!

Would say that church practiced the "Great Decommision!"

 

[Berean]

Know of a church in my area that boasted that they had NO missionary budget, as God will save the Elect without their help, as its ALL of God!

Would say that church practiced the "Great Decommision!"

If they did not disciple the called, Yes

 

[HAMel]

HAMel with your attitude, relax, you're in no danger of making any 'converts.'

Talk about attitude. Besides, please tell me where my attitude needs improvement..., after you've walked in my shoes for 66 years.


The reason I asked originally is because I received a magazine in the mail from Charles Stanley.

As stated on said magazine, "Our Mission. - At In Touch ministries our goal is to lead people worldwide into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ and to....."

Ever "lead" a horse to water? Make him drink! I see nothing wrong with telling but I've learned over the years you can't tell anyone very much unless they actually want to hear it.

It seems to me that In Touch should be missioned with "telling" rather than "leading".

But, that's just my attitude/opinion on the matter.

Back to you Preacher4....

 

[HAMel]

Know of a church in my area that boasted that they had NO missionary budget, as God will save the Elect without their help, as its ALL of God!

Would say that church practiced the "Great Decommision!"

I would consider they are of the "Sovereign Grace" persuasion but again, that's a reflection of "my attitude".

What say you?

 

[annsni]

The reason I asked originally is because I received a magazine in the mail from Charles Stanley.

As stated on said magazine, "Our Mission. - At In Touch ministries our goal is to lead people worldwide into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ and to....."

Ever "lead" a horse to water? Make him drink! I see nothing wrong with telling but I've learned over the years you can't tell anyone very much unless they actually want to hear it.

It seems to me that In Touch should be missioned with "telling" rather than "leading".

But, that's just my attitude/opinion on the matter.

Back to you Preacher4....

Then you are disobeying the Great Commission:

" Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

I don't see "telling" in here anywhere" but instead "making disciples".

 

[annsni]

Know of a church in my area that boasted that they had NO missionary budget, as God will save the Elect without their help, as its ALL of God!

Would say that church practiced the "Great Decommision!"

I would say that they were completely disobedient to the Word of God.

 

[preacher4truth]

HAMel with your attitude, relax, you're in no danger of making any 'converts.'

Talk about attitude. Besides, please tell me where my attitude needs improvement..., after you've walked in my shoes for 66 years.


The reason I asked originally is because I received a magazine in the mail from Charles Stanley.

As stated on said magazine, "Our Mission. - At In Touch ministries our goal is to lead people worldwide into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ and to....."

Ever "lead" a horse to water? Make him drink! I see nothing wrong with telling but I've learned over the years you can't tell anyone very much unless they actually want to hear it.

It seems to me that In Touch should be missioned with "telling" rather than "leading".

But, that's just my attitude/opinion on the matter.

Back to you Preacher4....

It's preacher4truth.

First, call it an attitude if you want to, but the indictment is true.

Secondly, age is no indicator of anything, walk is. And I don't need to walk in your shoes to see your error. No need to pull your 'age' card.

You've been show how your attitude is out of line, and not just by me. It's sounding like what has really happened is after 66 years you think your ship has come in, and you're unteachable. What a shame.

You're drawing an unfounded conclusion that we are to force them to drink. A baseless accusation to remain comfortable where you are.

 

[mont974x4]

There is no doubt a severe lack of discipleship happening in the western church. While we recognize that God is the one in charge and doing the real work we must remember that He chose to work through His people to reach His people.

One way we do that is, in fact, by leading them. It is interesting to note that the word "engage" in Titus 3 is the same Greek work to "leads" in Romans 12:8.

Tit 3:8 This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men.


Tit 3:14 Our people must also learn to engage in good deeds to meet pressing needs, so that they will not be unfruitful.


To use your terms, I may lead a horse to water. That is what God called me to do. It is not up to me to make the horse drink. In any case, it is God that does the real work, even in calling and enabling me to lead the horse (2 Cor 4 points to this). We see that God is in charge of it all in 1 Corinthians 3 as well as Romans 8 and 9.

 

[HAMel]

It's preacher4truth.

First, call it an attitude if you want to, but the indictment is true.

Secondly, age is no indicator of anything, walk is. And I don't need to walk in your shoes to see your error. No need to pull your 'age' card.

You've been show how your attitude is out of line, and not just by me. It's sounding like what has really happened is after 66 years you think your ship has come in, and you're unteachable. What a shame.

You're drawing an unfounded conclusion that we are to force them to drink. A baseless accusation to remain comfortable where you are.

Preacher4...., I'll respect you as you respect me! How's that. Perhaps when I grow up I'll be considered worthy, no?

 

[HAMel]

To use your terms, I may lead a horse to water. That is what God called me to do. It is not up to me to make the horse drink. In any case, it is God that does the real work, even in calling and enabling me to lead the horse (2 Cor 4 points to this). We see that God is in charge of it all in 1 Corinthians 3 as well as Romans 8 and 9.

mont974x4, I agree. I've lead many a horse to the water of the gospel only to have them walk away still thirsty. For sure, our Lord does the convicting. We are to show their condition and He does the rest..., according to His Will. All to often I'm afraid, many take it upon themselves to try and do the work of the Lord ultimately driving people away. Accordingly, all we can do is "tell" them! The Lord does the rest.

 

[preacher4truth]

It's preacher4truth.

First, call it an attitude if you want to, but the indictment is true.

Secondly, age is no indicator of anything, walk is. And I don't need to walk in your shoes to see your error. No need to pull your 'age' card.

You've been show how your attitude is out of line, and not just by me. It's sounding like what has really happened is after 66 years you think your ship has come in, and you're unteachable. What a shame.

You're drawing an unfounded conclusion that we are to force them to drink. A baseless accusation to remain comfortable where you are.

Preacher4...., I'll respect you as you respect me! How's that. Perhaps when I grow up I'll be considered worthy, no?

First, nothing I did disrespected you. If showing you where you are incorrect is disrespecting you then you certainly have some growing to do.

Tell you what, part of your growing up at 66 will be seen when you don't take a persons screen name and attempt to turn it into a derogatory term.

 

[mandym]

Know of a church in my area that boasted that they had NO missionary budget, as God will save the Elect without their help, as its ALL of God!

Which is a natural progression with those who hold to irresistible grace.

 

[HAMel]

First, nothing I did disrespected you. If showing you where you are incorrect is disrespecting you then you certainly have some growing to do.

Tell you what, part of your growing up at 66 will be seen when you don't take a persons screen name and attempt to turn it into a derogatory term.

preacher4truth, after having lived for 66 years and seeing a lot pass by me, I've come to realize that when one detects something in another they don't like, it's probably because they are seeing a trait for which they possess themselves.

In your opinion..., you did nothing to disrespect me. Again, in your opinion! We do not live in a world full of "one-way" streets. In my opinion..., you took a pot shot. It happens.

So, lets agree to disagree all the while understanding that neither of us have the ability to convey, such as the likes of Ernest Hemingway did in printed format.

Fair enough?

 

[preacher4truth]

First, nothing I did disrespected you. If showing you where you are incorrect is disrespecting you then you certainly have some growing to do.

Tell you what, part of your growing up at 66 will be seen when you don't take a persons screen name and attempt to turn it into a derogatory term.

preacher4truth, after having lived for 66 years and seeing a lot pass by me, I've come to realize that when one detects something in another they don't like, it's probably because they are seeing a trait for which they possess themselves.

In your opinion..., you did nothing to disrespect me. Again, in your opinion! We do not live in a world full of "one-way" streets. In my opinion..., you took a pot shot. It happens.

So, lets agree to disagree all the while understanding that neither of us have the ability to convey, such as the likes of Ernest Hemingway did in printed format.

Fair enough?

My friend, correcting you in error is to you disrespectful, which caused you to pull your 'age' card out as if respect is to be a given due to age rather than earned. Thus, there was no potshot, simply correction of error. Should we consider the age of the person posting on a forum? Perhaps. I certainly would if the person posting were new to the faith, but this just isn't the case here.

Nothing in your teaching reflects what I believe nor is it a trait of mine, which is why I addressed your post as it is in error.

Rethink your position as others have suggested.

I do however consider your concern valid, it's just not well thought out. No one believes we force others to 'drink' although I have witnessed manipulative evangelism (i.e. "Say this prayer if you want to go to heaven.")

Now, if it makes you feel comfy to believe that I share the same error or trait, then go for it, but then you'd be incorrect again, and you certainly wouldn't greet any correction there with humility, at least in considering your track record thus far.

 

[HAMel]

My friend, correcting you in error is to you disrespectful, which caused you to pull your 'age' card out as if respect is to be a given due to age rather than earned. Thus, there was no potshot, simply correction of error. Should we consider the age of the person posting on a forum? Perhaps. I certainly would if the person posting were new to the faith, but this just isn't the case here.

Nothing in your teaching reflects what I believe nor is it a trait of mine, which is why I addressed your post as it is in error.

Rethink your position as others have suggested.

I do however consider your concern valid, it's just not well thought out. No one believes we force others to 'drink' although I have witnessed manipulative evangelism (i.e. "Say this prayer if you want to go to heaven.")

Now, if it makes you feel comfy to believe that I share the same error or trait, then go for it, but then you'd be incorrect again, and you certainly wouldn't greet any correction there with humility, at least in considering your track record thus far.


Okay. You win.

 

[mont974x4]

To use your terms, I may lead a horse to water. That is what God called me to do. It is not up to me to make the horse drink. In any case, it is God that does the real work, even in calling and enabling me to lead the horse (2 Cor 4 points to this). We see that God is in charge of it all in 1 Corinthians 3 as well as Romans 8 and 9.

mont974x4, I agree. I've lead many a horse to the water of the gospel only to have them walk away still thirsty. For sure, our Lord does the convicting. We are to show their condition and He does the rest..., according to His Will. All to often I'm afraid, many take it upon themselves to try and do the work of the Lord ultimately driving people away. Accordingly, all we can do is "tell" them! The Lord does the rest.

What are our examples?

The prophets who were bold and called the people to repentance...and were murdered for it.
John the Baptist who was bold and called people to repentance and was murdered for it.
Jesus who called people to repent...and was murdered for it.

How many of the apostles died of old age? How many avoided prison and beatings?

I am by no means a fan of legalism. The problem is we have two extremes. Either the preacher week after week bashes the flock and shows no grace or the preacher week after week preaches fluff because edification has become redefined to mean "stroke my ego".

Sin must be confronted with bold humility. Nothing else upholds the standards of God. We are not trying to balance Law and Grace. We are to boldly preach the message of whatever passage God brings to us each week and in so doing Law and Grace are mixed according to His Word and Will.


A man named Peter Mead said, "Don't preach a good message from a text. Preach the message of the text."

As preachers we must be content with the knowledge that at any given moment with a single statement we are going to offend someone and at the same time apply a soothing ointment to an old wound.