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[JonShaff]

I want to say something before I forget...you mentioned Abraham being born again and receiving the Spirit, as a New Covenant Christian would. I do not believe that to be true...Christ said...

Mark 2:20-22 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

These would be NT truths/principles/realities that couldn't be infused with the OT, even for Abraham (pre-law).

Scripture also says...


John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So if Christ was yet to be glorified, how did Abraham become born again and receive the Spirit? That cannot be so, brother.


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[BrotherJoseph]

I want to say something before I forget...you mentioned Abraham being born again and receiving the Spirit, as a New Covenant Christian would. I do not believe that to be true...Christ said...

Mark 2:20-22 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

These would be NT truths/principles/realities that couldn't be infused with the OT, even for Abraham (pre-law).

Scripture also says...


John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So if Christ was yet to be glorified, how did Abraham become born again and receive the Spirit? That cannot be so, brother.


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Hi Brother Jon,

I meant it when I said I am through discussing the issue of gospel regeneration. We are not going to come to agreement and this will be my last post on this thread. I would suggest starting a thread on the topic in the Calvinism/Arminian section of the debate forum and I am sure you will find many both pro and con who would love to discuss the issue. Alternatively brother Internet Theologian may be on the board tomorrow, he is more than able and may be willing to discuss the issue with you further on this thread. Hope there are no hard feelings over our disagreement. Have a good night!