Wealthy Pastors

[Lagardo]

correct.

Any minister who opts out of the Social Security Ponzi Scheme (my bias is showing):tongue3: for financial reasons is breaking the law, and is being dishonest. That's a sin. The law requires that your opt-out be on religious grounds.

I don't like the SS scheme, but my objections aren't religious. Lots of ministers are one day gonna get in trouble over this one.

I had a seminary proffessor who said that he would hate to be on record opting out of social security if our country (Lord forbid) goes to socialized healthcare. Technically, one could very well be opted out as by default.

 

[bapmom]

MorganT,

throughout the thread you seem to be equating "love of money" with wealth. One can be very, very poor and still have a real problem with the "love of money." A pastor could be earning a salary comparable with the lower income members of his church, and still have a problem in this area. It is not being rich that is the problem. It is the all-consuming desire to get more money that is the problem.

Even these wealthy pastors which you are talking about.......you don't really know that they do not give back to their people. I know of a pastor who drove around in a Mercedes because a wealthy church member gave it to him.....free. Now, by driving that free car isn't he actually helping his people out by allowing for the fact that now he has no car payment to make? Sure, its a great way to be helping someone else.....but you do not necessarily suffer every time you give to others.

Its easy to judge those wealthy pastors when you don't know what they actually give away. Why not concentrate on our own backyards....so to speak.........

 

[MorganT]

Its easy to judge those wealthy pastors when you don't know what they actually give away. Why not concentrate on our own backyards....so to speak.........

Because that would take the fun out of this discussion dont you think. That is what this is anyhow isnt it just a discussion I mean no one is preaching the gospel in this thread are they. Its just a conversation with diffent views from different people. I dont know why people want to make it so personal unless of course Im hitting a hot button for them. HMMMMMMMMMM

 

[rbell]

One of my former pastors was very wealthy...but not from church income. He inherited 400 acres of farmland that had become prime suburban real estate.

He was a very giving pastor, and a great man of God. Many folks on the mission field benefitted due to his generosity.

I had no problem at all with his wealth.

 

[bapmom]

Its not personal at all, MorganT.
Its just that we so often look at those who make what seems to us to be alot of money, and somehow we assume that they must be greedy. Simply because they have wealth then they must have a serious issue with the "love of money."
However, if their wealth is a blessing from God, than He must know that they can handle that wealth. So really, those of us who are poor are probably more guilty of not being able to be good stewards of our money. In many cases, God knows that that wealthy Christian man can handle the responsibility of having so much money.

I wouldn't mind being tested like that........lol........

but right now we are being tested with how we handle not having alot.

All that to say that I was just pointing out that it is a common misperception that wealth=greed and/or love of money. In reality, the poor can be just as guilty of having an obsession with money.

 

[TheWinDork]

My Pastor collects ZERO Salary!

And we cannot even afford to support ANY Missionaries.

We barely get enough in each week to meet our bills. (Lights, Gas, Electric)

Does that make my Church Evil? No, Some people just aren't Tithing. and everytime anyone preaches on the subject, people get angry and leave.

But are going to start compromising? Absolutely not! We are sticking to the OLD PATHS, Strictly KJV, Old Hymns and Old Fashioned Gospel, Seperated, Pre-Trib, Pre-Mill...

I'd like, just once, for these people that think that Pastor's make too much money, come to where I go to Church and see if you still have the same attitude!

-WTD

 

[Mexdeaf]

All that to say that I was just pointing out that it is a common misperception that wealth=greed and/or love of money. In reality, the poor can be just as guilty of having an obsession with money.

Having lived in Mexico and worked with the deaf who are generally the 'poorest of the poor', I have found this to be quite true.

 

[TheWinDork]

Having lived in Mexico and worked with the deaf who are generally the 'poorest of the poor', I have found this to be quite true.

Maxdeaf,

You be blessed for this... You are doing what Paul Said, "all things to all people"... you shall be rewarded greadly. :thumbs: :thumbsup:

For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you. (1 Corinthians 9:19-23 KJV)

Praying for you and your Ministry. raying:

-WTD

 

[Tom Bryant]

deleted by author

 

[Tom Bryant]

My Pastor collects ZERO Salary!

And we cannot even afford to support ANY Missionaries.

We barely get enough in each week to meet our bills. (Lights, Gas, Electric)

Does that make my Church Evil? No, Some people just aren't Tithing. and everytime anyone preaches on the subject, people get angry and leave.

But are going to start compromising? Absolutely not! We are sticking to the OLD PATHS, Strictly KJV, Old Hymns and Old Fashioned Gospel, Seperated, Pre-Trib, Pre-Mill...

I'd say the church people are evil. If they don't tithe, they don't support their pastor monetarily, they don't give so the world can know Jesus, how else would you describe them?

You can use the KJV and be pre-everything in doctrine, but evil is when doctrine doesn't change actions.

Or is evil only when people use the NIV?

 

[StefanM]

These words of Agur I find quite instructive.


Prov. 30: 8-9

Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.

 

[TheWinDork]

I'd say the church people are evil. If they don't tithe, they don't support their pastor monetarily, they don't give so the world can know Jesus, how else would you describe them?

You can use the KJV and be pre-everything in doctrine, but evil is when doctrine doesn't change actions.

Or is evil only when people use the NIV?

Hi Tom,

I guess I should have make it a little more clear. and I failed to say this before, so, please forgive my feable mind..

We do have SOME that do tithe... But not all. and also, our Church is a smaller Church as well. and it's not got all the big time membership that some Churches do, so, that is one reason our Pastor isn't taking a salary. We are, however, helping our Pastor out. He has cancer and some of the people that are tithing, are also giving above and beyond that, to help pay for his medication for fighting the cancer. Our Pastor is 71 years old. He's been faithful for many years. Been through quite a bit, survived a Church Collapse and Split. (very long story) I love it there, I feel such at home. and I just cannot rush to judgement, like I used to. God will deal with those who are tight fisted with thier money, I'd be tithing myself, But I'm not working... I am looking very hard though... if and when I get back to work, 10% of what I gross in going in the plate! I'm no fool, God's brought me too far to skimp out on Giving to the Lord.


....and no my friend, evil is evil, But I don't judge anyone, that's the Lord's job. I'll let him deal with it.

Blessings and Peace :wavey:

-WTD :type:

 

[gb93433]

Some people just aren't Tithing. and everytime anyone preaches on the subject, people get angry and leave.

When preaching and the people leave because they do not like the truth then bless them on the way out the door. Be happy God is removing them. I replanted a church and it went from about 16 down to about ten and then shot up to 20 in a period of about 6 months. God was removing the troublemakers and I did not even know it until later. He removed most of them so far that they could not have travelled to the chruch in one days travel by car. All of them changed jobs. I just prayed that God would work and He did. I did not say a word to anyone. Just prayed.

Many preach on tithing while at the same time are disobedient to the command Jesus gave in Mt. 28:19, 20.

Making disciples solves a lot of problems. When that happens there will be the lazy and antagonists who feel it is their church and they own it, who will give you troubles. They love themselves more than Christ.

There are many who preach truth without love and because of that the truth is not in them. It is only a part of their external facade.

 

[gb93433]

One of my former pastors was very wealthy...but not from church income. He inherited 400 acres of farmland that had become prime suburban real estate.

I had no problem at all with his wealth.

Sounds like Abraham

 

[TheWinDork]

When preaching and the people leave because they do not like the truth then bless them on the way out the door. Be happy God is removing them.

Amen, I agree with this wholeheartedly. and it has happened there in the past.

I replanted a church and it went from about 16 down to about ten and then shot up to 20 in a period of about 6 months. God was removing the troublemakers and I did not even know it until later. He removed most of them so far that they could not have travelled to the church in one days travel by car. All of them changed jobs. I just prayed that God would work and He did. I did not say a word to anyone. Just prayed.

Best thing to do in that sort of a situation, sounds like the Lord was in that.

Many preach on tithing while at the same time are disobedient to the command Jesus gave in Mt. 28:19, 20.

Amen. Discipleship is very much needed in the Church today. I only wish they would have had that when I was kid. I prolly wouldn't have went the route I did.

Making disciples solves a lot of problems. When that happens there will be the lazy and antagonists who feel it is their church and they own it, who will give you troubles. They love themselves more than Christ.

This is very true! :thumbsup: I heard it said one time, that when you're on the straight and narrow, that attacks from the Devil are his (the devil's) Tax Return on blessings. and it is amazing how a little teaching will upset the applecart of the Religious types. I've seen that too.

There are many who preach truth without love and because of that the truth is not in them. It is only a part of their external facade.

Amen. There's alot of that in the Churches today. I've seen it quite a bit. and it's very sad. :tear:

-WTD

 

[ituttut]

rickh Should there be limits to the layperson's compensation? Why is the pastor seen as a villain if he makes a decent living? Do you have any Scriptural support for saying that there should be a limit on what a pastor makes?

Before anyone jumps to any conclusions and flips their lid, I am not talking about the extreme cases where a pastor steals money or is using his influence on people to suck the life out of them financially. I'm just tired of hearing people say that it's wrong for a pastor to make $100,000 and not backing it up with Scripture. Is it wrong for anyone else to make $100,000?

BTW, I am not a pastor!!!!

Amen Ricky. $100,000 15 years ago for an average size church was too much. Not for today, and that may be a little low to begin with, without a signing bonus .

 

[TheWinDork]

Amen Ricky. $100,000 15 years ago for an average size church was too much. Not for today, and that may be a little low to begin with, without a signing bonus .

That would all depend on the size of the Church, and also, are they a "do nothing" Baptist Church or a Church that's "doing something"??? as in Outreach to the Community. I know a Church not too far from me here.... two of 'em, in fact, that the Pastor's making a real nice salary. Are they reaching out to the community? as in soul winning, and ect.... NO! that Pastor sits on his behind and collects a salary. Those kinda Pastor's don't deserve jack dittly squat, if you ask me.

I've said it for years and I'll say it, till the very day, that they throw dirt on my face in the grave... Real Pastor's Get thier Hands Dirty! :thumbsup:

 

[corndogggy]

Thought I should make the comment that income and wealth aren't always the same thing, often it's not related at all. I mean, the beginning of this thread was talking about a 6 digit salary and a huge house and a really nice car... what alot of people don't realize is that this isn't an indication of wealth, its an indication that they're spending a whole bunch, often in an irresponsible way. Yes it's true that higher incomes can support this spending over a longer amount of time, but alot of those high earners are in debt up to their eyeballs and spend everything they earn, while a private in the Army can retire a millionaire. Just don't confuse bling-bling with wealth.

 

[ituttut]

That would all depend on the size of the Church, and also, are they a "do nothing" Baptist Church or a Church that's "doing something"??? as in Outreach to the Community. I know a Church not too far from me here.... two of 'em, in fact, that the Pastor's making a real nice salary. Are they reaching out to the community? as in soul winning, and ect.... NO! that Pastor sits on his behind and collects a salary. Those kinda Pastor's don't deserve jack dittly squat, if you ask me.

I've said it for years and I'll say it, till the very day, that they throw dirt on my face in the grave... Real Pastor's Get thier Hands Dirty! :thumbsup:

Good point, and exceptions to everything. Most endeavor to feed the Word, should visit those that are ill exhorting the members to get their hands dirty, acting as administrator, directing traffic while he studies (scripture) to make himself approved.

True Christ is the head of the Spiritual church of which we are in His body, but down here in this sinful world, the "head" of the church (Pastor) is to tell the hands and the feet to get busy making sure those in that church which need help in any manner gets it. Then help others outside in Word, and deed. Those that go forth from the church are to spread the "grace commission" of believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. A Pastor that accomplishes this is worth his weight in gold.