Wealthy Pastors

You make some good points MorganT.

I see the first listed is provide for our family. I at one time committed to "tithe". What a disaster for my wife and two young children, and myself. As I grew I found I was trying to be a Jew, living by the law, and really being worse than an infidel for not properly taking care of my own. Marrying at a young age, and 2 children within the first 3 years, with not much income, is not conducive to tithing. This did not last very long. As I grew in Christ (and the income, freely giving) I found there was a "divide" in His Word. When I looked closely I found He was not even talking to me while He was on earth as God/man that came for only His own Nation.

We have salvation available to us, and today there are no promises made to us of happiness, monetary abundance, health or anything else. Our churches should see that our Pastors and their family are adequately taken care of. Beyond that, the churches obligation has ended, and the "good" Pastor is satisfied in the Lord.

But I can't see where One hundred thousand is out of the question today for a Preacher of a church with a few hundred members. Many churches no longer furnish a parsonage at no cost. I sold one of my houses about 8 years ago to a Baptist preacher. He was in his forties. He and his wife were quite apprehensive of owning a home, as his two previous churches had furnished a home, utilities, and a limited car allowance. But I told him what it cost us to live on in our retirement, and this helped relieve their anxiety for his future income was somewhat larger than mine, which it needed to be for my home is paid for.

If some give directly to a Pastor, or he makes outstanding investments, I believe he has every right to possess, and spend own self and family within reason. But, if he (or wife) drives a high priced luxury or sport car, the danger is in offending the "weaker Christian". While it may raise the eyebrows of people such as you and I (probably because it may cost more than ours), we would come to accept it as long as it did not interfere with his relationship and effectiveness with God, and the membership.

Such a Pastor in his Liberty in Christ (I Corinthians 10:23) is doing a "questionable thing", just as this Post brings to the forefront of a church (if very small). One, or both of these actions panders to the carnal, which takes us to Romans 14. Over indulgence in matters such as this are not edifying or profitable for the cause of Christ?

A Pastor that demands too much, or a church that gives in is without understanding, forcing the weaker Christian into the sin of judging the Pastor/church as a "sinner", for the "babe" does not understand all things are "lawful" to we in Christ. The Pastor, and/or church sin by hurting the "babe".

The layman can get away with certain things where a Pastor cannot, and should not expect to. It is the Pastors place to be on guard to be careful to not offend the weaker Christian. And it is the duty of every Christian to do the same. We talk about sin, and it is almost always the sin that we think we see others do. I, as so many here, am saved by the Grace of God for sins such as this. That is why I praise and thank God that He has forgiven me all of my sins, for so many times we have no idea that we have sinned, or realize too late that we have.

 

okay, not to beat a dead horse but I will say there are limits to pastoral compensation. In particular I read this:

http://www.abpnews.com/1318.article

and get sick to my stomach. There are ethical limits to what a pastor can receive in ministry. This is ridiculous...I don't know what else to say.

 

Should there be limits to the layperson's compensation? Why is the pastor seen as a villain if he makes a decent living? Do you have any Scriptural support for saying that there should be a limit on what a pastor makes?

Before anyone jumps to any conclusions and flips their lid, I am not talking about the extreme cases where a pastor steals money or is using his influence on people to suck the life out of them financially. I'm just tired of hearing people say that it's wrong for a pastor to make $100,000 and not backing it up with Scripture. Is it wrong for anyone else to make $100,000?

BTW, I am not a pastor!!!!

Ricky

 

Has anyone in this thread thought of and quoted the Scripture, "The love of money is the root of all evil"? There may be nothing inherently wrong with a $100K salary for a pastor if he has not angled for it or demanded it, and if the church genuinely wants to pay it. But even so there is the spiritual danger of becoming enamored with one's earning power.

I notice in the article that has been posted that one of the pastors with a very poor financial history is now in a megachurch. I reckon megachurch also means mega-salary. How is it we continue to reward arrogant behavior?

As for the tax evasion charges ... I had a staff member who announced to me that he did not intend to calculate and pay the Social Security/Medicare portion of his taxes, because he "couldn't afford to". I told him he had no option other than to declare himself a conscientious objector and opt out of Social Security ... but of course it was too late for that and he did not do it. A couple of years later the IRS required our church to garnishee his salary until the back taxes and penalties were caught up. We also discovered that he ordered computer equipment on the church's credit line, for himself, without authorization; when discovered, he claimed he "was gonna" pay it back. Needless to say, he was strongly encouraged to move on!

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here...check my other replies in this forum and then click the link above.

yeah...click the link and read the rest of the thread

and my position in this entire thread has been that it's not our job to question the salary figures of pastors in other churches when that particular church determines the salary for the pastor. My point here is that certain kinds of "compensation" like this mentioned above go beyond ethical, pastoral, and theological allowances.

that's nice

 

That is true, but that is the minister's choice. Churches will try to underpay their ministers to ensure "reward."

 

I guess we are then led to the question,

"How much is too much?"

Obviously, smart folks understand there is a vast difference in what a certain salary gets you depending on your area's cost of living.

But again, I ask, at what point is the salary too much salary?

I'm paid quite well by my church for what most student ministers make. But I can make justifications for that. If our youth group were a church unto itself, it would likely have two full-time staff members. We've grown nearly a thousand percent in the six years I've been here. And our church is now healthy and growing.

I've never asked for any raise or bonus. They've simply been provided by a very generous body of believers.

Anyhoo, ya'll know where I'm coming from. Repeating the question, at what point is the salary too much salary?

 

Is there any universe in which you could make money that was not from the Lord God?

 

Everyone "makes money off of the Lord" if you believe he provided your current place of employment. Does that mean we shouldn't be allowed to make but just enough to squeak by? The pastor is not held to a different standard in this area than we are...ummm....at least he shouldn't be. If you believe he should be, back it up with some Scripture.

 

Speaking of opting out, my mother lives in a small community in East Texas where the majority of people are retired and have a very fixed income. The part-time pastor of the small Baptist church (about 150 elderly members) where my parents used to attend opted out of Society Security many years ago. He is facing retirement, but hadn't saved much money and claimed he had put most of what he had saved into an emu farm a few years ago.

He push forward a motion to raise his salary to $100,000 (from somewhere around $30,000) because his son was making that much at another Baptist church. Furthermore, his salary was supposed to increase by $20,000/yr for five years after that. The pastor really laid down a lot of guilt and fertilizer until he cajoled enough people to make the motion pass. As soon as it passed, nearly half of the people in the church left and joined the local Methodist church as associate members, including the associate Baptist pastor, the pianist, and several deacons.

After that fiasco, I doubt the church had enough money to pay the pastor what they had agreed because the church has been in steep decline. The Methodist church is booming, and the Methodist ministers struggle with maintaining a Methodist identity because more than half of their attending members are Baptist. :tongue3:

 

:laugh: A Baptist takeover........cool :laugh:

 

To my knowledge, the ability to opt out of social security is provided for those who have a religious belief against any assistance from the government.

To me, unless a pastor is preaching this and living it (in all areas), he really shouldn't be opting out for financial reasons. It just seems dishonest.

 

It's as honest as making the motion for your own raise???

 

I don't believe that is appropriate either. However, with the issue of opting-out, my point was that a pastor is making a statement to the IRS that may not be true.

 

correct.

Any minister who opts out of the Social Security Ponzi Scheme (my bias is showing):tongue3: for financial reasons is breaking the law, and is being dishonest. That's a sin. The law requires that your opt-out be on religious grounds.

I don't like the SS scheme, but my objections aren't religious. Lots of ministers are one day gonna get in trouble over this one.