Ok in reading this folks keep referring to a pastor retiring. I dont think Moses got to a certain age and gave up on Gods work. What Im trying to say is if you are called by God to be a pastor why do you give up the calling when you reach a certain age. Are you not called by God for life. I personaly dont believe a pastor should retire, however that being said Pastor also known as Elder or Bishop doesnt mean he is the man up there preaching every week he can still be senior pastor and have someone else preaching even when he is 90 or 100. Like I said this is just how I feel and I cannot back it up with scripture.
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Wealthy Pastors
- Thread starter MorganT
- Start date
I don't know about a pastor leading a church in his older age. Our pastor has been at our church for 38 years now and I love him like a father, but at some point, I can see that being a senior pastor will be more and more difficult to him. As it is, he's not the healthiest and he's said that preaching 2 sermons on Sunday makes him so exausted now that he ends up sleeping much of the rest of the day - it's tough. A senior pastor has a LOT of responsibility, especially if he's the only pastor in a church. Our church is fortunate in that we have 9 pastors so he's got a lot of backup and lots of people to help him do the pastoring job (we have a congregation of about 1000), yet it's still hard on him. Also know that Satan is actively working on pastors constantly - because they have a LOT of influence for the kingdom if they're following the Lord. I think that when a pastor feels ready to leave the congregation when he reaches retiring age, he should be able to. I really don't think a good pastor will just go and never preach the gospel again but he's going to be taking a break from being the spiritual leader for an entire congregation - and he deserves that!
Ann
Ann
MorganT said:
Pastors are not supermen. Do I think pastors should normally retire at 55? Of course not. But do old men not deserve some rest? Full-time pastoring is very demanding. 80 year old men should not be pastored into the grave. Do they remain respected spiritual leaders? Yes. But I think they should definitely have a break from the responsibilities of full-time work.
Brother Bob
New Member
Would depend on the church but I don't never intend to retire until they lay me down for good. I told the Lord I would give my life and I intend to do just that. :flower:
MorganT said:
great gravy...not trying to be difficult here but I think we're just at way different places in life. This kind of reasoning, that pastors should never be a) taken care of according to the desires of their congregation or b) never be able to dial it back, has run so many of my friends and (to be honest) my grandfather into the ground.
You really don't think pastors should be able to retire? Wow...I mean just wow. Granted I'm not planning on ever retiring, but we must get this old traditionalist mumbo jumbo out of our churches.
For instance my grandfather was a Southern Baptist pastor for 50 years. Preached well into his 70s and planted, built, and revitalized half dozen or so churches that weren't huge in numbers but were huge in genuine compassion. He never had the luxury (like was blessed with) to attend seminary but still pastored successfully for those 50 years. They were tough years and he had to labor under the burden of a parsonage for most of those years. He never made a huge salary (in today's money he probably never got about 35k for a year.) Churches took advantage of him and his family (i.e. my father) had to live in poor circumstances in several occassions. When he got to retirement age he kept pastoring the church he planted in the 70s and did so past his "supposed" retirement age. As he aged (as we all do) he encountered some health problems and had to continue to work to work through these. He never received health care or any retirement contribution until my father interceded for him in the 80s (as he entered his 60s.) Now he loved the ministry, but we probably would have been able to have him around for a couple of more years and he would have had it easier towards the end. He did retire and still remained active in his state's convention but he retired from the pastorate which he loved.
Now I don't blame the churches, but I do ask that we as baptists reexamine this ridiculous notion that pastors have to stay underpayed over overworked. Your mentality here just isn't going to work and we need to reconsider how we approach these men of God and demand so much from them but give back so little.
I completely, and as vehemently as I can through this medium, disagree with your positions here and ask that you reconsider them.
MorganT said:
Some pastors do not retire. A lot of churches force retirement on their pastors. Some retire good pastors who preach the word and make disciples too because they want to hear sweet words and not the truth
Some pastors are forced to retire because of their health. Some are forced to retire because they have a spouse who causes them trouble. I have a friend whose wife was viewing pornography and later decided she would shack up with another man she met on the internet and leave her husband and family.
Every Christian is called to make disciples. Christians should never retire from the ministry of making disciples. As long as we are alive we should be making disciples. That is not limited by age.
MorganT said:
True, but when they got to the Jordan, God put Joshua in charge of leading them into the promise land. He retired the shephard and put a general in charge as he now required different style of leadership.
This happens in Churches also, when the current pastor has taken the Church all the journey assigned to him, he should step down so the next leader can continue the work of the Lord. He would be selfish and in the way if he doesn't. Do you discard the old preacher, no way. He is full of wisdom and knowledge that can benefit the new man greatly.
preachinjesus said:
Why not blame the churches. How many people would it take to provide for a pastor. Years ago I pastored a church of 20 people which steadily grew. Those people took care of us. On pastor appreciation the amount of money they gave us was much more than most pastors of large churches would receive. Tehyw ere not wealthy. They were average people who were thankful for the impact we had in their lives. Many of them we met with weekly for Bible study in our home and teaching them to make disciples. My family remembers that church with some of the finest memories in life. During our time as a church we saw God answer some incredible prayers.
Some churches should be ashamed at how little they care for their pastor. I would contend that some churches should either close their doors or get busy.
Churches not only have a reputation among other churches and Christians, but also among non-Christians in the community.
Some years ago when I was pastoring a church I met a young man in the commmunity who was not a Christian and he asked me why the church I was pastoring never took very good care of its pastor. I was there only a few months and was not aware of that but did find out the truth behind his question later. Today that church is slowly dying.
LeBuick said:
True it is that God put Joshua in charge but at the time Joshua was put in charge Moses Died did he not. I never said that the Elder would have to continue preaching I said he should not retire. To use that word you make it sound like its a job or duty. The Elder is a servant which means he was chosen and accepted to be the head servant. Why can he not still be an elder is beyond me. Im not saying work him to death Im saying dont quit on God and he wont quit on you.
Deu 34:4-10 And the LORD said unto him, This is the land which I swore unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither. (5) So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. (6) And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day. (7) And Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died: Moses was called by God and was used until his death at the age of 120 yrs old. He didnt retire or quit when he got tired or when he reached 65 yrs of age he kept going as the lord kept using him all the way up till he dropped dead.his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. (8) And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended. (9) And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the LORD commanded Moses. When Moses died a new man took over his work that is Gods plan since the beginning. Show me scripture were he can retire and then and only then will I change my old worn out views. God is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow.(10) And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
We shouldn't ever retire from serving God.
But serving God and getting paid for it are two different things.
Will I one day retire from vocational ministry? Probably, if I live long enough. I don't plan on working as hard when I'm eighty as I do now.
Will I retire from serving God? God forbid.
Morgan, you said,
Scripture, please...especially if you mean that he should be in vocational ministry for life.
But serving God and getting paid for it are two different things.
Will I one day retire from vocational ministry? Probably, if I live long enough. I don't plan on working as hard when I'm eighty as I do now.
Will I retire from serving God? God forbid.
Morgan, you said,
Scripture, please...especially if you mean that he should be in vocational ministry for life.
rbell said:
I think he should be involved but when I say involved he should be teaching the younger pastors what he has learned over the years this is were the term Elder comes in in my thinking. He no longer should be leading the flock per say in preaching and visiting and all the other duties at the older age his role should then start to become the role of leadership from the sidelines meaning using his vast knowledge to help the younger pastors especially if there are more than one pastor in a congregation. When one referrs to retiring lets look at is meaning.
Retire
RETI'RE, v.i.
1. To withdraw; to retreat; to go from company or from a public place into privacy; as, to retire from the world; to retire from notice.
2. To retreat from action or danger; as, to retire from battle.
3. To withdraw from a public station. General Washington, in 1796, retired to private life.
4. To break up, as a company or assembly. The company retired at eleven o'clock.
5. To depart or withdraw for safety or for pleasure. Men retire from the town in summer for health and pleasure. But in South Carolina, the planters retire from their estates to Charleston, or to an isle near the town.
6. To recede; to fall back. The shore of the sea retires in bays and gulfs.
RETI'RE, v.t. To withdraw; to take away.
He retired himself, his wife and children into a forest.
As when the sun is present all the year, and never doth retire his golden ray.
[This transitive use of retire is now obsolete.]
RETI'RE, n.
1. Retreat; recession; a withdrawing. Obs.
2. Retirement; place of privacy. Obs.
I made bold what I think of when I refer to the word retire it means to withdraw when you retire from a job you quit, you do nothing in regards to your old lifestyle usually. A man called by God should never retreat or quit he has a new role in his later yrs and that is to continue to encourage and teach the ones that follow.
Joseph M. Smith
New Member
We seem to be talking past one another. Consider first, that Christian discipleship is a lifelong calling, and that it is a calling for all believers, not just those who are led into special roles, like pastoring. So one ought never to retire from that.
But consider, also, that as our churches have evolved, they have learned to make it possible for those whose services were needed full-time to earn a living from that work -- not to gain wealth, but to earn a decent living. And that in turn makes it possible for pastors to discern the right moment to retire from full-time employment and follow other dreams as well.
I have seen too often the phenomenon of pastors preaching and serving a church well past the capacity to do so, simply because no one had invested in a retirement program for them. One of my students (from my campus ministry days) was called to a church where the pastor was able to do nothing more than be driven to the church building on Sunday morning, was carried in to the service, and preached from his chair. The messages may have been wonderful, but the behind-the-scenes work of pastoral care, administration, education, etc., all deterioriated, and when the old man died, and the church called my student, he found he had to rebuild everything from a crumbling building to a non-functioning organizational structure. It did not have to have happened that way.
As for me, I served as a full-time pastor until I was 66, but sensed not only my energy waning, but also some decline in the church's vigor (i.e., attendance, giving, and new member acquisition slowing down). It felt like the Lord's signal that it was time to step aside and let there be someone else to build on what I had done. And, beautifully, even before I had left that pastorate, there were opportunities to serve as a Foundation executive and to teach on an adjunct basis at a seminary. I am feeling that God's timing is the right timing, and when we sense it and follow it, new opportunities for ministry will indeed come our way for as long as we are able to accept them.
Oh, and then there is the ministry of supply preaching ... gotta go, I'm filling the pulpit tomorrow for a pastor who has had surgery! I love preaching here and there, observing what is happening in our churches, and learning how I might help with some of the issues I see there.
But consider, also, that as our churches have evolved, they have learned to make it possible for those whose services were needed full-time to earn a living from that work -- not to gain wealth, but to earn a decent living. And that in turn makes it possible for pastors to discern the right moment to retire from full-time employment and follow other dreams as well.
I have seen too often the phenomenon of pastors preaching and serving a church well past the capacity to do so, simply because no one had invested in a retirement program for them. One of my students (from my campus ministry days) was called to a church where the pastor was able to do nothing more than be driven to the church building on Sunday morning, was carried in to the service, and preached from his chair. The messages may have been wonderful, but the behind-the-scenes work of pastoral care, administration, education, etc., all deterioriated, and when the old man died, and the church called my student, he found he had to rebuild everything from a crumbling building to a non-functioning organizational structure. It did not have to have happened that way.
As for me, I served as a full-time pastor until I was 66, but sensed not only my energy waning, but also some decline in the church's vigor (i.e., attendance, giving, and new member acquisition slowing down). It felt like the Lord's signal that it was time to step aside and let there be someone else to build on what I had done. And, beautifully, even before I had left that pastorate, there were opportunities to serve as a Foundation executive and to teach on an adjunct basis at a seminary. I am feeling that God's timing is the right timing, and when we sense it and follow it, new opportunities for ministry will indeed come our way for as long as we are able to accept them.
Oh, and then there is the ministry of supply preaching ... gotta go, I'm filling the pulpit tomorrow for a pastor who has had surgery! I love preaching here and there, observing what is happening in our churches, and learning how I might help with some of the issues I see there.
Joseph M. Smith said:
Unfortunately I know of one now. The Pastor is approaching 100 and is preaching from a wheel chair. Back in the day his Church would overflow on Sunday so that they put speakers in the steeple so on a good day, people could sit on the lawn could listen to service. He preaches to about 10 to 15 now.
Joseph M. Smith said:
It was a X Pastor while I was in the siminary that I say under morning, noon and night. His wife began calling me son I was around so much. He taught me so much about Church and Church folks that I could never have learned from a book etc... That knowledge (acquired wisdom) just can't be bought. I thank God for you also Rev Mitchell.
@Morgan, sorry buddy. Sometimes I forget my slang confuses people. I call a preacher going home to be with the Lord as retirement. It's the best pention plan in the world and eternal life isn't a bad perk either.
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OK we are seeing eye to eye now wew it takes a while when you type dont ya think instead of having a conversation were you can see body language. HMMM anyhow what about this I have seen it over and over again when a pastor is over a church for many many yrs and retires then moves away and is never heard from again it seems to look like he was just there for the money what about the relationships he made over the yrs. We had one that did that he moved back to were he came from around 800 miles away and no one heard from him ever again. I have a problem with this type of retirement of a pastor. Is it just me or does anyone else see a problem with this.