Were Adam & Eve sinless.....

[TCassidy]

Adam and Eve both sinned. ("Eve was in the transgression first." 1 Timothy 2:14)

Eve sinned in listening to the serpent instead of her husband (remember, God gave the command not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil to Adam before Eve was created).

Adam sinned in that, with his eyes wide open, he chose his wife over his God.

But Adam's sin was the sin that condemned the entire human race. He knew better. Eve was deceived.

 

[HisWitness]

Would you please show me in my post where I mention "some fallen angel from God's abode," or "There even isn't ant proof scripturally(in context)of angels being able to sin...."

Perhaps you misread what I posted.

when you say Serpent--do you mean that the devil was using the serpent as his tool or do you mean that it was literally a snake that could talk of its own power ??

 

[agedman]

when you say Serpent--do you mean that the devil was using the serpent as his tool or do you mean that it was literally a snake that could talk of its own power ??

Why couldn't it be both?

No doubt Adam and Eve were familiar with all creatures (for Scriptures state Adam gave names to each).

What better way than for the enemy of the believer to take on the disguise of a creature in which both Adam and Eve would be familiar and perhaps have even enjoyed visiting with upon occasion?

Does not the Scriptures state, "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."

If Satan can disguise himself, then it can very well be that the creature that deceived Eve could have been both a familiar serpent and Satan.

Also, you seem to be implying that there was some type of language barrier between Adam, Eve and the creatures. I don't know that that is the case. Remember the prophet's donkey?

 

[HisWitness]

Why couldn't it be both?

No doubt Adam and Eve were familiar with all creatures (for Scriptures state Adam gave names to each).

What better way than for the enemy of the believer to take on the disguise of a creature in which both Adam and Eve would be familiar and perhaps have even enjoyed visiting with upon occasion?

Does not the Scriptures state, "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."

If Satan can disguise himself, then it can very well be that the creature that deceived Eve could have been both a familiar serpent and Satan.

Also, you seem to be implying that there was some type of language barrier between Adam, Eve and the creatures. I don't know that that is the case. Remember the prophet's donkey?

by enemy you are saying the fallen angel entered the serpent--that's exactly what my fallen angel post was about

all you are doing is what man has been doing for centuries--taking that tradition as absolute truth--and don't even study it out but throw that tradition in the scriptures and its not even there

 

[agedman]

by enemy you are saying the fallen angel entered the serpent--that's exactly what my fallen angel post was about

all you are doing is what man has been doing for centuries--taking that tradition as absolute truth--and don't even study it out but throw that tradition in the scriptures and its not even there

Am I to assume you do not consider Satan a created being that chose to not remain in the appointed position and desired to rise even above God?

If so, what is your view, and what do you use as Scripture to support your view?

 

[HisWitness]

Am I to assume you do not consider Satan a created being that chose to not remain in the appointed position and desired to rise even above God?

If so, what is your view, and what do you use as Scripture to support your view?

Satan is not a name but a word in scripture which means (adversary,accuser)

Satan is a loan word--it has never been a name for a fallen angel

you refer to rise above god--that scripture is referring to a king(Man)in his pride and arrogance towards God

show plain scripture of an event of an angel falling from God's abode.

 

[HisWitness]

Am I to assume you do not consider Satan a created being that chose to not remain in the appointed position and desired to rise even above God?

If so, what is your view, and what do you use as Scripture to support your view?

its not me showing scripture to prove my view--BUT its others showing in scripture of the event of the angel rebelling from God and being cast out of God's abode ??

 

[agedman]

its not me showing scripture to prove my view--BUT its others showing in scripture of the event of the angel rebelling from God and being cast out of God's abode ??

OK, well others have spent their hours in this matter, and when it comes right down to it, one must either admit that Satan, Lucifer, dragon, the head of all evil, the father of lies, the one who Jesus states the religious rulers of the day were his offspring, the enemy... or one has to ignore a greater part of Scriptures on this matter.

For instance: The Bible calls this created being,

"And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;...":​

So, however you view the origins of Satan, it must conform to Scripture. That serpent of the garden was the devil, Satan, the dragon ... .

 

[percho]

let me ask you the same question--if a so called entity that mankind has named Satan was the culprit behind it--why did God only Kill all of manikind in the flood(except for 8) in his judgement ?? and let the entity live on and not be judged ?

seems fair to you to kill mankind in flood and let the culprit who according to man is behind the whole thing go free ???? so that he might ruin mankind after the flood also ???? big problems here :godisgood::godisgood:

Before the man created in the image of God, was created and before God made the help meet for the man created in the image of God, by taking her from the man the following had already been determined: 1 Peter 1:18-20 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver and gold, from your vain conversation by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.

This lamb, foreordained before the foundation of the world would be a man brought forth by a woman, a virgin, who had been conceived by God Holy Spirit within her.

Why?

And Jehovah God layeth a charge on the man, saying, `Of every tree of the garden eating thou dost eat; and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.' Gen 2:16,17 YLT

It was already foreordained the lamb would die. Not if something took place. The lamb was going to die and redeem man. From what?

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. Hosea 13:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: Rev 12:9

I do not think it was Adam.

Adam did what God knew Adam would do and the lamb was born: This one is he who did come through water and blood -- Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; 1 John 5:7 YLT

 

[percho]

Before the man created in the image of God, was created and before God made the help meet for the man created in the image of God, by taking her from the man the following had already been determined: 1 Peter 1:18-20 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver and gold, from your vain conversation by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.

This lamb, foreordained before the foundation of the world would be a man brought forth by a woman, a virgin, who had been conceived by God Holy Spirit within her.

Why?

And Jehovah God layeth a charge on the man, saying, `Of every tree of the garden eating thou dost eat; and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.' Gen 2:16,17 YLT

It was already foreordained the lamb would die. Not if something took place. The lamb was going to die and redeem man. From what?

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. Hosea 13:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: Rev 12:9

I do not think it was Adam.

Adam did what God knew Adam would do and the lamb was born: This one is he who did come through water and blood -- Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; 1 John 5:7 YLT

Concerning the above post and thinking about the thread about Cain and his wife; Would not the woman of whom the lamb would be born require that there be a line of sons of God back to a man created by God in the image of God? Would he have to be the only man created and would not the woman taken from him not be the mother of all living through the Christ. After all the wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[HisWitness]

Before the man created in the image of God, was created and before God made the help meet for the man created in the image of God, by taking her from the man the following had already been determined: 1 Peter 1:18-20 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver and gold, from your vain conversation by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.

This lamb, foreordained before the foundation of the world would be a man brought forth by a woman, a virgin, who had been conceived by God Holy Spirit within her.

Why?

And Jehovah God layeth a charge on the man, saying, `Of every tree of the garden eating thou dost eat; and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.' Gen 2:16,17 YLT

It was already foreordained the lamb would die. Not if something took place. The lamb was going to die and redeem man. From what?

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. Hosea 13:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: Rev 12:9

I do not think it was Adam.

Adam did what God knew Adam would do and the lamb was born: This one is he who did come through water and blood -- Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; 1 John 5:7 YLT

so explain why you don't think the Serpent was adam and explain your reasoning behind you thinking the serpent was a snake that a Fallen angel took control of ??

 

[Inspector Javert]

The first human sin was Eve's. Adam followed shortly after.

I always wondered what woulda happened had Adam not followed Eve in sin?

MMMRRRPP! Wrong.


Eve was "deceived" and therefore not the willful sinner. Adam had full knowledge of the crime and sinned willfully. See the Scriptures:
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
No wonder you have such a preposterous view of Genesis....you don't even understand chapter 3...........
If you comprehended Chapters 1 and 2, you would be party to the knowledge that God only personally instructed Adam (Eve wasn't formed) and also only Adam was party to having witnessed God creating....thus, Eve had little or no IMMEDIATE knowledge of God's identity and his place in creation. She had NO IDEA whether Adam's injunctions against eating from the tree were from "God" or not.....she only assumed as much from Adam's instructions. Read the foundational book of the Bible AGAIN. It's VERY instructive if you pay attention to it.
If you get something so utterly BASIC wrong, no wonder you don't know a fig about who Cain's wife was.................(his sister, or a neice/great-neice etc...).

I'd do ANYTHING if we could all agree that no one should be allowed to run their soup-cooler about the Scriptures if they haven't read and understood Genesis chapters 1-10....that's all I ask....The first 10 chapters of the WHOLE book. You can depart as far as you want if you get those few passages right.