Were God's children ever in danger of being thrown into the lake of fire at any point of time ?

[SavedByGrace]

I can see your not convinced that the baby must first be born and breath a breath before they announce their presence to the world.

I am not interested in human logic. Jesus told the Jews who wanted to murder Him, that He wanted them to be saved

Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.
John 5:34

Either Jesus was deceiving them or told them the truth

 

[agedman]

you just don't understand what the Bible says, and rant on about nothing! What does Jesus say in John 16:8-10? that the Comning of the Holy Spirit, will CONVICT the entire human race of their SIN...because they do not believe in Me! It was this CONVICTION that those who heard Peter in Acts 2, when they were CUT TO THE HEART, that made them ask, What must we DO!". Peters response is in verse 38. Instead of more so called "reformed theology", which is corrupt on the teaching of Biblical salvation, it is the Holy Bible that we must follow!

Conviction is not always the effectual call.
Conviction is more often considered as "my bad" in this day as a way to escape the righteousness and judgement.

However, there is that conviction in which is accompanied by the effectual call that drives the person to ask, "What must I do."

For the "DO" is what humankind always come up with. It is that lie of the Devil that one must "DO" to be redeemed.

"Believe" is not "DO" but a core change caused by God.

"The word is NIGH you IN your mouth and IN your heart...."​

 

[agedman]

I am not interested in human logic. Jesus told the Jews who wanted to murder Him, that He wanted them to be saved

Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.
John 5:34

Either Jesus was deceiving them or told them the truth

Oh, It would be so much better if you would examine the claim in light of the context!

37And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, 38and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent.

39You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41I do not receive glory from people.

42But I know that you do not have the love of God within you.

43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”​

 

[SavedByGrace]

Oh, It would be so much better if you would examine the claim in light of the context!

37And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, 38and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent.

39You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41I do not receive glory from people.

42But I know that you do not have the love of God within you.

43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”​

What does verse 40 say

 

[AustinC]

What does verse 40 say

It says people refuse God. It says what Romans 1 says.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Oh, It would be so much better if you would examine the claim in light of the context!

37And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, 38and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent.

39You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41I do not receive glory from people.

42But I know that you do not have the love of God within you.

43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”​

In verse 34 Jesus says that He would like to see them saved. In verse 40 they reject His salvation.

Universal Death of Jesus Christ and human free will is clear here

 

[agedman]

In verse 34 Jesus says that He would like to see them saved. In verse 40 they reject His salvation.

Universal Death of Jesus Christ and human free will is clear here

Jesus is comparing and contrasting John (the baptizer) and Himself.

He is showing how if they were to receive Him as they received John they would be saved. But they didn't, did they. Rather, they turned from the light. Just as John 1 states folks do.

People do not like the light, they hide from the light. Those that do not hide, but abide in the light, they receive the light by not turning away, to THEM is given the authority, the power, the right to become the Children of God. NO one else.

The effectual call is accompanied by ears to hear, life to receive, and mouth to proclaim the core change that took place in the heart.

Examples: Eunuch, Paul, Philippine Jailer, those of Pentecost, those added to the church daily even to this day...

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus is comparing and contrasting John (the baptizer) and Himself.

He is showing how if they were to receive Him as they received John they would be saved. But they didn't, did they. Rather, they turned from the light. Just as John 1 states folks do.

People do not like the light, they hide from the light. Those that do not hide, but abide in the light, they receive the light by not turning away, to THEM is given the authority, the power, the right to become the Children of God. NO one else.

The effectual call is accompanied by ears to hear, life to receive, and mouth to proclaim the core change that took place in the heart.

Examples: Eunuch, Paul, Philippine Jailer, those of Pentecost, those added to the church daily even to this day...

Now you are reading your theology into what the Bible actually says

 

[agedman]

Now you are reading your theology into what the Bible actually says

Perhaps it would be better for you to argue with the presentation of John 1.

HE is the light of the world.
HE came into the world.
He came to His own race of people (Israel)
They hated the light and turned away.
But to those who did NOT turn away...
To those He gave the power, authority, right to become God's.

Do you see something I missed? Perhaps you can, for my memory is faulty.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Perhaps it would be better for you to argue with the presentation of John 1.

HE is the light of the world.
HE came into the world.
He came to His own race of people (Israel)
They hated the light and turned away.
But to those who did NOT turn away...
To those He gave the power, authority, right to become God's.

Do you see something I missed? Perhaps you can, for my memory is faulty.

this is about Israel and has nothing to do with the New Testament "elect"

 

[agedman]

this is about Israel and has nothing to do with the New Testament "elect"

OH, but did you not just point out that John recorded Jesus wanted them (Israel) saved by citing John 5:34?

"He came unto His own, and His own received Him not. But to as many as DID receive Him, to THEM He gave ...."

Why did they not receive Him?

THEY turned from the light. They refused. They would rather fellowship with the fellow creatures (as John the Baptizer) who they could see was not the light but a lesser light, then the SOURCE of light that would illuminate even the hidden agenda as was seen more often as Christ walked among the leadership.

 

[SavedByGrace]

OH, but did you not just point out that John recorded Jesus wanted them (Israel) saved by citing John 5:34?

"He came unto His own, and His own received Him not. But to as many as DID receive Him, to THEM He gave ...."

Why did they not receive Him?

THEY turned from the light. They refused. They would rather fellowship with the fellow creatures (as John the Baptizer) who they could see was not the light but a lesser light, then the SOURCE of light that would illuminate even the hidden agenda as was seen more often as Christ walked among the leadership.

The FACT is that Jesus, Who is Almighty God, told the Jews who desired Him dead, "I say these things, that ye may be saved"

How and why can Jesus say that to them, unless ALL are included in His Death, and that ALL can come, should they desire to! These same Jews that Jesus wanted saved, REJECTED His offer to eternal life, and thereby, as far as we can tell from the Account in John, never believed and were lost. Yet Jesus Who would have known their rejection, and being lost, told these who would go to hell, that we wanted them saved. This is against reformed theology!

 

[Marooncat79]

If I had the freedom to believe, then I have the freedom to unbelieve

 

[Marooncat79]

oh, okay...used the wrong word, I guess. let me restate it: but what if THAT/THE elect were SDA....sorry, not born and raised in the English language....

They would have been saved in spite of SDA and NOT because of it

 

[timtofly]

Consider everything you know thus far, everything you read about God, His Sovereignty, His will, His assurances that His purposes will come to pass, EVERYTHING (there, see ? not yelling...)
before you answer....whether you adhere to the sovereign electing grace of God or not, do you think you were ever in danger of being hell bound ?

Note: if this ain't the right forum for these questions, mods and admins, please move it to the right one.

Those currently in sheol. They have yet to be removed from the Lamb's book of life. They will stand at the brink of the Lake of Fire. I think Scripture points out the Lake of Fire is around after the Lamb's book of life is unsealed and opened. Although it could have been in existence, and we just cannot see it now. I doubt some here will even accept it exists until it can be seen.

Also many clearly miss the point that any who experience the first resurrection, a physical resurrection out of Adam's corruptible flesh into God's permanent incorruptible physical body, totally avoid the second death, which is the Lake of Fire.

The point of redemption is when exactly? When one is born from above, and becomes an adopted child of God, or when they physically die, and literally have a son of God physical body, instead of Adam's corruptible body?

 

[Reformed1689]

The absurd teaching of the "reformed", that the "elect" are "saved" even before they "repent and believe", is complete rubbish, and AGAINST the Teachings of the Holy Bible! The "reformed" teaching on salvation is UNBIBLICAL.

That's not what we teach.

 

[Duckie]

M

Consider everything you know thus far, everything you read about God, His Sovereignty, His will, His assurances that His purposes will come to pass, EVERYTHING (there, see ? not yelling...)
before you answer....whether you adhere to the sovereign electing grace of God or not, do you think you were ever in danger of being hell bound ?

Note: if this ain't the right forum for these questions, mods and admins, please move it to the right one.

King Manasseh is probably the greatest example of God's forgiveness. (2 Chronicles 33)

I don't think my own history of salvation would be helpful as a story. I grew up in church and had a falling away, but God saved me anyway. So, yes, was in definitely in danger, but God saved me.



Alice Cooper listens to Sproul and Charles Stanley.

I just love telling people that.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

 

[AustinC]

I am not interested in human logic. Jesus told the Jews who wanted to murder Him, that He wanted them to be saved

Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.
John 5:34

Either Jesus was deceiving them or told them the truth

Was Jesus incapable of getting what he wanted?

 

[tyndale1946]

M

King Manasseh is probably the greatest example of God's forgiveness. (2 Chronicles 33)

I don't think my own history of salvation would be helpful as a story. I grew up in church and had a falling away, but God saved me anyway. So, yes, was in definitely in danger, but God saved me.

Alice Cooper listens to Sproul and Charles Stanley.

I just love telling people that.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

I did not know that Sister Duckie... Which only goes to prove, ONLY God knows the heart of a person, we do not!... Brother Glen

 

[AustinC]

M


King Manasseh is probably the greatest example of God's forgiveness. (2 Chronicles 33)

I don't think my own history of salvation would be helpful as a story. I grew up in church and had a falling away, but God saved me anyway. So, yes, was in definitely in danger, but God saved me.



Alice Cooper listens to Sproul and Charles Stanley.

I just love telling people that.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

I heard Alice Cooper talk at Moody Bible Institute back in 1994. His dad was a pastor.