Were non-Calvinists predestinated to be non-Calvinists?

[Dave G]

@George Antonios :

At 11:17, you ask " What does it mean to be conformed to the image of His Son?"
To me, it means exactly what you say that it doesn't.

We as believers are being conformed to the image of His holiness, righteousness, and faithfulness through the power of His Spirit within us.
This takes a long time, but that image will be complete when we see our Saviour and we get our glorified bodies.
Until then, we can and do still sin...
But we are no longer slaves to it ( Romans 6 ).

Where you get the idea of the other I do not know, but it isn't from these:

" Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." ( Romans 8:12-14 ).

" For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." ( 2 Corinthians 5:21 ).

" Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." ( Galatians 5:19-24 ).

The flesh is dead...
We no longer live the rest of our lives in the body, chained to the lusts of it.

Though we stumble into sin, we get back up, repent and go on...
Knowing that our sins are paid for, and that He will deliver them from even the power and presence of it, someday.

 

[Derf B]

Derf, I have shared scripture. I don't need a philosophy.

We could go on like this for quite some time, but just know that if you claim the authority of scripture, you are claiming it philosophically, since scripture doesn’t say, “AustinC’s interpretation is 100% approved by God”.


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[Derf B]

He didn't deny that. But God could have chosen to save us without necessarily giving us Christ-like resurrection bodies. Thus adoption of the body is a blessing connected to salvation but not an inherent part of salvation, conceptually speaking.

Verse? Could we be saved without the resurrection of our bodies?? I don't think the bible ever presents salvation without the resurrection. I could be wrong.

Verse?

I think my comment above is answer to this. Can you tell me where salvation does NOT include the resurrection of the body?

Paul expressly states that the Holy Ghost is an earnest towards the new body: Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Which purchased possession is the body as outlined by verses in the video.

No, it's not the body that’s the purchased possession, but the person, as the body by itself is not a person, but the resurrection of the body completes the redemption process—the last enemy to be defeated is death.

 

[Dave G]

@George Antonios :

At 17:43 you make the argument that the believer has not received the adoption yet.
But according to Romans 8:15, they have.

The Spirit of adoption, which is the "earnest", or down payment of our inheritance, has been received ( Ephesians 1:13-14 ).

Galatians 4:6 confirms, and you deny.
Do you see it?
Here, I'll put it up so that you can see it clearly:

" Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." ( Galatians 4:3-7 )

According to verse 3, believers were already the children of God by making the statement, "when we were children"...
They were in bondage and under the elements of the world.
Because they ARE sons ( not "will be" )...
He sent forth His Spirit into their hearts.

The same language as in Ephesians 2.

When we were dead is trespasses and sins, He "quickened" ( made us alive ) in Christ.
We are His workmanship, created "in Christ Jesus" ( Ephesians 2:10 ).
For much more than just to walk in good works.
We were His children from the foundation of the world, chosen "in Him" just as Ephesians 1:4-5 says.

Chosen "in Him", our names written in the Book of Life at that point ( Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8 ).

George,
Do you not know how much God loves and loved His children, even when they were dead in their sins?
So much so, that He sent His Son to redeem them, my friend.

I pray that the Lord grants you His grace to see it, someday.

 

[AustinC]

We could go on like this for quite some time, but just know that if you claim the authority of scripture, you are claiming it philosophically, since scripture doesn’t say, “AustinC’s interpretation is 100% approved by God”.


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Derf, you have an open theology that misuses the Bible by having a pretext looking for prooftexts out of context. If that is the hill you choose to die on and then explain to God why you thought He was an incapable God, that is your right. I would not want to be you.
I will trust God as He tells us He is King of Kings and Lord of Lord's.

 

[Derf B]

Derf, you have an open theology that misuses the Bible by having a pretext looking for prooftexts out of context. If that is the hill you choose to die on and then explain to God why you thought He was an incapable God, that is your right. I would not want to be you.
I will trust God as He tells us He is King of Kings and Lord of Lord's.

Well, you will rather be me when God tells you you shouldn’t have been blaspheming His name and blaming Him for sin.


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[Salty]

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