Were Old Testament Saints Born Again?

[TCassidy]

The poll lacked the correct answer.

The correct answer is, Yes and No.

Yes, the OT saints were positionally born again due to the promise of the Father to send the Son to be the propitiation for their sins which was symbolized by the animal sacrifices.

No, in the sense that they, like us, are not yet born again into the new life that awaits all of God's people in the new heavens and new Earth.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Is there any reader who really take anything he says seriously??????

Nope...."gibberish" seems pretty rude.

 

[TCassidy]

Jedi Knight

your in or your out.

How do you expect to be taken seriously when you make grammatical errors regarding words that should be mastered by the 4th grade?

 

[OldRegular]

Personally, I think the only reason it is "more difficult" is due to one's ecclesiastical view rather than the Biblical evidence.

For example, Romans 8:8-9 provides only two possible options. These options have salvation in view as the words "none of his" deny that those described by the other option are saved.

In addition. Paul demands that to be "IN the Spirit" is to be indwelt by the Spirit (v. 9) and therefore they are at minimum inseparable.

So can one be regenerated OUTSIDE the Spirit of God? If that is possible then so can they be without indwelling. However, if that is not possible then neither is it possible to be regenerated without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Furthermore, if spiritual death is separation or alienation of the human spirit from the Spirit of God (Eph. 4:18) then what can possibly be the solution or the reversal of such a condition if is not being brought spiritually into union with the Spirit of God?? God IS life and God IS light, and God IS spirit. Therefore to be spiritually SEPARATED or "Alienated" from God is to be spiritually dead and blind.

Scripture tells us:

James 2:23: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Genesis 15:6. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

So we have an unregenerate man, one who is Spiritually dead, declared righteous and the Friend of God. Remarkable!

 

[Jedi Knight]

Grammar police pulls me over......I roll down my window....."yes officer?"

 

[Jedi Knight]

Jedi KnightHow do you expect to be taken seriously when you make grammatical errors regarding words that should be mastered by the 4th grade?

(you're) right officer.........I should be ashamed of myself and not taken serious.

 

[The Biblicist]

The poll lacked the correct answer.

The correct answer is, Yes and No.

Yes, the OT saints were positionally born again due to the promise of the Father to send the Son to be the propitiation for their sins which was symbolized by the animal sacrifices.

No, in the sense that they, like us, are not yet born again into the new life that awaits all of God's people in the new heavens and new Earth.

Please explain what is the PRACTICAL impact or application of POSITIONAL regeneration versus actual regeneration?

 

[The Biblicist]

Scripture tells us:

James 2:23: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Genesis 15:6. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

So we have an unregenerate man, one who is Spiritually dead, declared righteous and the Friend of God. Remarkable!

Paul says he was justified PRIOR TO being circumcised rather than "in" circumcision part of his life and that is a long ways BEFORE Pentecost.

 

[OldRegular]

Paul says he was justified PRIOR TO being circumcised rather than "in" circumcision part of his life and that is a long ways BEFORE Pentecost.

I have no idea what point you are attempting to make. I did not mention circumcision which has nothing to do with justification!

 

[The Biblicist]

I have no idea what point you are attempting to make. I did not mention circumcision which has nothing to do with justification!

Circumcision is an external type of the new birth. It is a divine ordinance or type, just as sacrifices were a divine ordinance or type. NEITHER obtained literal remission of sins and righteousness which are the essence of justification (Rom. 4:6-8) or the "blessedness" obtained by faith. Abraham was justified, his sins fully remitted and righteousness fully imputed by the object of his faith which is the promise of the coming Christ and it was obtained NOT IN CIRCUMCiSION or that part of his life occuring after being circumcised (Rom. 4:11).

Note the choice Paul provides "in circumcision" or "in uncircumcision" when actual justification was obtained (Rom. 4:9-10).

 

[TCassidy]

Please explain what is the PRACTICAL impact or application of POSITIONAL regeneration versus actual regeneration?

The primary distinction is that when we are finally and completely born again, the body, soul, and spirit will all be completely and perfectly sanctified. Such is not yet the case.

 

[Jedi Knight]

I have no idea what point you are attempting to make. I did not mention circumcision which has nothing to do with justification!

I did ask you a question....did I get lost?

 

[The Biblicist]

The primary distinction is that when we are finally and completely born again, the body, soul, and spirit will all be completely and perfectly sanctified. Such is not yet the case.

Jesus says the object of new birth is the "spirit" of man not the flesh. There was no quickening of the flesh in Ephesians 2:1! The body is not even mentioned in Matthew 19 where "regeneration" is found outside of "spirit" context. The scriptures call the change in the flesh as glorification and removal of "corruption" by putting on incorruption but not new birth.

Old Testament saints were born of the Spirit - meaning their spirit was quickened so they no longer in spiritual death or existing spiritually "in the flesh."

 

[Jedi Knight]

Old Testament saints were born of the Spirit - meaning their spirit was quickened so they no longer in spiritual death or existing spiritually "in the flesh."

Exactly! :type:

 

[Van]

OT saints were born again (regenerated) by the holy Spirit of God.

This is the Calvinist view, and is mistaken.

No verse or passage has been cited. The OT saints were not made perfect before Christ died on the cross. To be made perfect, i.e. holy and blameless, a person must be born anew in Christ.

Colossians 1:22, "yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—"

Hebrews 11:40, "because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they [OT Saints] would not be made perfect."

 

[Jedi Knight]

This is the Calvinist view

Good for them.

 

[Van]

Scripture tells us:

James 2:23: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Genesis 15:6. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

So we have an unregenerate man, one who is Spiritually dead, declared righteous and the Friend of God. Remarkable!

Close but mistaken. Abraham was not declared righteous. It was Abraham's belief in the LORD, i.e. his faith, that was reckoned as righteousness. So yes, Abraham was spiritually dead, yet put his faith in God.

If Abraham had been regenerated, then the blood of Christ would have removed his sin, and he would have been holy, blameless and perfect. Not how scripture actually reads.

 

[OldRegular]

Circumcision is an external type of the new birth. It is a divine ordinance or type, just as sacrifices were a divine ordinance or type. NEITHER obtained literal remission of sins and righteousness which are the essence of justification (Rom. 4:6-8) or the "blessedness" obtained by faith. Abraham was justified, his sins fully remitted and righteousness fully imputed by the object of his faith which is the promise of the coming Christ and it was obtained NOT IN CIRCUMCiSION or that part of his life occuring after being circumcised (Rom. 4:11).

Note the choice Paul provides "in circumcision" or "in uncircumcision" when actual justification was obtained (Rom. 4:9-10).

As I said circumcision has nothing to do with justification!

 

[The Biblicist]

Close but mistaken. Abraham was not declared righteous. It was Abraham's belief in the LORD, i.e. his faith, that was reckoned as righteousness. So yes, Abraham was spiritually dead, yet put his faith in God.

If Abraham had been regenerated, then the blood of Christ would have removed his sin, and he would have been holy, blameless and perfect. Not how scripture actually reads.

Justification includes remission of sin or one cannot be justified before God and includes righteousness that the Law approves - imputed righteousness or they cannot be justified before God.

Have you read Romans 4:6-8 where in both remission of sins and imputed righteousness are contextually defined as inclusive of justification? Apparently not, because both David and Abraham are called "blessed" because they POSSESSED both. Abraham was "blessed" with remission of sins and imputed righteousness while he was "in uncirucmision" and that is something he already "HAD" Rom.( 4:11) long before the cross. Try reading these scriptures!

 

[The Biblicist]

As I said circumcision has nothing to do with justification!

Yes it does. It proves that justification was in possession and already "had" (Rom. 4:11) while he was in "uncircumcision" proving justification was not only actually obtained prior to the cross but prior to any divine rites in the life of the justified before Calvary.