Were Old Testament Saints Born Again?

[Van]

Returning to topic, none of the OT Saints were regenerated, born anew, before Christ died on the cross. No verse or passage has been offered that says or implies that mistaken view.

1) Calvinists claimed Abraham was "declared righteous" but it was his faith that was declared righteous.

2) Hebrews 11:40 indicates the OT Saints had to wait to be made perfect, i.e. holy and blameless until Christ died. Colossians 1:22

 

[The Biblicist]

Returning to topic, none of the OT Saints were regenerated, born anew, before Christ died on the cross. No verse or passage has been offered that says or implies that mistaken view.

1) Calvinists claimed Abraham was "declared righteous" but it was his faith that was declared righteous.

2) Hebrews 11:40 indicates the OT Saints had to wait to be made perfect, i.e. holy and blameless until Christ died. Colossians 1:22

All kinds of scripture has been provided but they are no avail to a blind man. John 3:3-10 uses present and Aorist tense verbs with NO FUTURE TENSE verbs and it is stated BEFORE Pentecost and Nicodemus is rebuked for being a teacher of Old Testament Scripture and ignorant of the new birth. It is taught throughout the Old Testament under various terms and types as a PRESENT reality. "circumision of the heart" or a "new heart" "turn me" "quicken me" etc.

Your interpetation of hebrews 11:40 has been proven wrong by the immediate context that is speaking of final glorification thus really be made "perfect" but you could care less about the context or about God's word. Being made "perfect" is STILL FUTURE FROM OUR TIME as we have not yet been made "perfect" and they will not be made perfect "WITHOUT US." Get a grip on reality.

 

[kyredneck]

....If you cannot understand this, I cannot help you.

Lol, from one hard noggin to another... :laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

I did ask you a question....did I get lost?

Not lost we are all one point calvinists OSAS! Perhaps misplaced. I apparently missed your question. i humbly apologize and will search!

 

[Van]

Not one of the scriptures cited says the OT Saints were born anew or regenerated before Christ died. Not one.

Yes the OT teaches that in order to enter heaven, you must be born anew. But John 3:13 teaches none of them entered heaven therefore the very passage cited actually refutes the claim.

Hebrews ll:40 teaches that the OT saints had to wait until after Christ died to be made perfect. There promised redemption in Christ has now come, and their redemption is now complete in Him.

 

[OldRegular]

So when you read 1 Peter 1:11 "which the Spirit of Christ in them" who do you suppose he was talking about? OT or NT believers here in this?

1 Peter 1:10-12
10. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

I believe Peter was talking about the Old Testament Saints.

However, it is Scripture such as the above which led me to make the statement that prompted your question!

The question of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is more difficult but it appears that the Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell the believers during the Old Testament period!

There are New Testament Scripture which seem to indicate that the indwelling Holy Spirit was something new therefore my ambivalence about the permanent indwelling of the Old Testament Saints.

The OP raises an interesting point and one worth discussing. I believe there are sufficient Scripture in the Old Testament to indicate that the Saints were regenerated, otherwise righteousness could not be imputed to them. However, the continual indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not that clear, at least to me!

 

[OldRegular]

But John 3:13 teaches none of them entered heaven therefore the very passage cited actually refutes the claim..

Stated simply, you are wrong about John 3:13.

 

[Van]

Yes, the OT scripture writers were inspired by the Spirit of Christ. That does not equate with being born anew or regenerated.

If the OT saints had been made righteous, they would be perfect, but scripture says they had to wait. Therefore their faith was credited to them as righteousness. Apples and Oranges

 

[Van]

John 3:13 says no OT Saint had entered heaven. Saying I am wrong does not change the verse.

 

[Jedi Knight]

1 Peter 1:10-12
10. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

I believe Peter was talking about the Old Testament Saints.

However, it is Scripture such as the above which led me to make the statement that prompted your question!



There are New Testament Scripture which seem to indicate that the indwelling Holy Spirit was something new therefore my ambivalence about the permanent indwelling of the Old Testament Saints.

The OP raises an interesting point and one worth discussing. I believe there are sufficient Scripture in the Old Testament to indicate that the Saints were regenerated, otherwise righteousness could not be imputed to them. However, the continual indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not that clear, at least to me!

Thanks Old Regular for your reply!