Were there any Humans on Earth before Adam/Eve?

[percho]

My friend. That is not correct.

(Genesis 1:3) "And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light."

You don't need the sun, moon and starts to designate a 24 hour day. You only need light and God created it from the beginning.

(Genesis 1:4-5)
"And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day."

Did God create the light or was the light actually The Spirit God's presence in the darkness which was upon the face of the deep?

 

[agedman]

But there is in the fact that the gap theory teaches that death came before man sinned. Man sinned and death came into the world.

Death did come to the pre-era world. Suddenly and chaos ruled. And then what was "spoken"? "I am the light of the world..." "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Heb 4:3

Furthermore, look at the setting. Man is placed in a specific place called Eden which has specific boundaries. It is separated from the world by the boundaries until man sinned. Man sinned, removed from Eden and prevented from returning to Eden.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

And this is not disputed at all by the gap.

The Gap Theorist propose the pre-historic animals died to form the fossil record. But the Holy Spirit through Paul says death came by sin. The first animal died after sin.

Gen. 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them

The gap does not dispute this statement.

The pre-era destruction of all life was not the picture of atonement that God provided to Adam and Eve by slain animal and covering.

Before you say man ate meat prior to this notice Gen. 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Notice that man and animals ate only of the fruit of the trees and the green herbs were for the animals. So man and animals did not see death prior to sin entering the world. This would indicate no gap in the time unless one holds that nothing existed on earth until the creation of Genesis 1:2 and following.

Didn't even consider anything about the dietary considerations. It brings nothing to the refuting or supporting of Gap.

One question why would we need the Gap theory if nothing existed prior to the creation of Gen. 1 what purpose would it serve?

Why would you think nothing existed prior to Gen. 1.

God existed.

God is a creator.

Again, to consider that all things started with this present era and God did nothing in all eternity past is not consistent with the character and nature of God.

Also, your statements could be taken to presuppose that not even the dwelling place of God, the cherubim, seraphim, and angelic hosts would not have existed. That would make Satan's downfall AFTER the garden. Why then would God plant two trees and instruct Adam to not eat of the fruit if the greatest of all angels was yet to be created and had not fallen?

 

[Christos doulos]

Did God create the light or was the light actually The Spirit God's presence in the darkness which was upon the face of the deep?

My friend. All I can says is what the bible states. God said, Let there be light.

 

[agedman]

The Earth is said to rotate around the Sun would not the Sun need to be in place in order for the Earth to orbit around it? God could have had it all out of order and disorganized you are correct, but doesn't scripture show us a God who has things in order.

Genesis 1 says in verse two that the earth was (Hayah) exist with out form (Tohuw) empty space and void (Bohuw) empty. The earth was empty and a wilderness. So the earth existed in emptiness and was empty. That would mean it existed without life and was empty. Nothing that it didn't have some order to it but that it existed by itself as an empty wilderness and it was in darkness (Chosek) obscurity. It existed in an obscure, empty wilderness that would pretty much indicate nothing else existed around it or even near it. Does not God do things in an orderly fashion and so he created the Earth first?
Then on the fourth day He created the Sun, Moon and Stars and they would therefore rotate around the first creation the earth.

The original language of the poetry would indicate that "without form, void" were words that reinforced each other by repeating the same definition, and as such would depict something we might consider as boiling mass (whether hot, cold - who knows). The point being that there was no "containment" field to give shape or the words form,void could not have been used. It was not just the earth was a desolate wasteland, but it had no consistent shape but was probably such as liquid and taking on whatever shape of the holding container.

What was/is the holding container?

"He stretches out the north over the empty place, and hangs the earth upon nothing.
He binds up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.
He holds back the face of his throne, and spreads his cloud upon it.
He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
He divides the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smites through the proud.
By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?"​

 

[revmwc]

In order to address your approach, I figured to trim your post and answer some of your points.

Originally Posted by revmwc
I was taught the Gap theory this way. The Gap is between Genesis 1:1 AND1:2. A period of unknown time between the beginning and the re-creation as Larkin and others believe. Dr. DeHaan wrought several books on the subject.... Then God created man xxxxxxx number of time later.
Problems abound with this theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by revmwc
First sin is said to have entered the world when man sinned not satan by scripture
I miss typed meant to say First death entered the world when man sinned not satan by scripture.
Why?

Seems that when Satan was found with iniquity that was when both heaven and earth became polluted by his presence.

If you desire to use Romans 5:12 as a support for man's fall bringing sin, then you would be supporting the thinking that Christ's death took "away all sin."

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Man's fall brought DEATH, Spiritual, Physical and all the other forms of death in the bible.
Christ Atoned for all mankinds sin, but man must receive the free gift of Salvation for that atoning sacrifice to be effective in his life. Mankind must now answer for rejection of Christ as Saviour that is why they end up in hell.


(1 John 2:2). Such thinking would do away with hell, heaven and even the fallen angels would be saved from their appointed fate in the Lake of Fire.
1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The whole world all of mankind just John 3:16 say for God so loved t he World, not this earth but mankind. Christ is the Propiation for all of mankind, rejection of Him as saviour leads to condemnation to hell.
But, because that is a false belief, the "world" then of Romans 5 must also fall under the same limits.



So? We all have some understanding of numerology. Some do more with it than others. I am not certain that going down that road would be supportive to your statements.



Pretty self evident what the beginning is.

Is there a start before God?

What is "time" to God?

Where is the start of God?

Man doesn't comprehend the eternal aspect of always was, is and will be. So, what makes mere man think that God didn't have other creative work before this earth?

Is it because we would box God into what we can comprehend?

Those are all rhetorical questions, no need to answer. The answer shows the foolishness of how some approach the subject from a myopic perspective. At least you have a more understanding of the topic.

I see you didn't want to answer what the beginning is. We all know God had no Beginning. But man has a beginning the earth has a Beginning. So the question I posed would be this in the Beginning, the Earths beginning or mankinds beginning. God created the heavens and the Earth. Then we see the whole of creation, not a gap between them but God creating man and establihing time for man.


He certainly could have. It wouldn't have been much of a problem for God.

God very easily could have created the earth with a gap between creating all other things but for what purpose?
I have seen some teach that it was created first as a place to send satan and his fallen angels when they fell, but no life forms other than them would have existed. I have even heard some teach that during the Gap satan created life forms, those are hard to grasp.


And this is supported by what reasoning?

God having placed all the vegetation upon the earth one day, couldn't have sustained the life for the next day. The sun, moon and stars, have no life in them self. They do not rule over the day and night to "sustain life." The scriptures teach that Christ is the life giver and sustains all things. (Col 1:17)

The vegitation could easily have existed for one 24 hourr day with the need for photosynthesis to occur. But with the gap theory the time it would need would have been more than one 24 hour day. Common knowledge of plant life needing the light from the sun and the gravitation effects of the moon on it would support the statement I made.


I agree.

There is no purpose of the preexistence in Glorifying God and His creation for THIS era of existence.

BUT that doesn't mean that it didn't exist, nor that there is evidence of the existence.

For one to assume that nothing existed before this present era involving humankind made in His image is a denial of one of the fundamental characteristics of God being the Creator.

Just because the Revelations closes the door on the present time view of eternity has no bearing upon God's creative work being manifested in whatever He chooses after revelations.

There really is no significant evidence that I have seen in your post that would not allow for the gap and a literal 6 day creation.

God has placed man here on earth for a specific time and reason. You have shown no logical reason why God would have needed the Gap, nor the purpose for that Gap. Could the Gap have existed sure it could, but does God do things with reason and purpose or just to do them? Man was created for a purpose, man fell for a purpose, Christ died for a purpose, so what would be the purpose of the Gap theory? Would it be a way to agree with evolutionist on the age of the earth and yet steill be able to say yes but, then God did this? Why would we need to even supprt the evolunist aging of the earth, they need to prove themselves right we don't need to prove them wrong. They have failed to support their claims of the age of the earth and yet well meaning believers form theories to support parts of their beliefs thus validating their teaching.

 

[Christos doulos]

I'm back and short answer is:

Yep.

So, answer these:

Did God create all (things) with purpose and plan?

Is God light and in Him no darkness?

Would God ..................All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men."[/INDENT]

There is NO conflict between the gap and six literal days of creation.

Welcome back my friend!

My friend. You are using a philosophical system that easily can be abused i.e. Universalists use the same approach. It starts with a presupposition that there is no hell, so they ask, Is God not love? Is God hateful? therefore God will save all of mankind.

I only can go from what scripture says, and scripture is clear. God made EVERYTHING in 6 days

(Genesis 1:31) "And God saw EVERYTHING that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."

That includes the heavenly hosts unless you don't believe they were God's creation?

 

[agedman]

My friend. That is not correct.

(Genesis 1:3) "And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light."

You don't need the sun, moon and starts to designate a 24 hour day. You only need light and God created it from the beginning.

(Genesis 1:4-5)
"And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day."

You are very correct.

Except, you really don't even need "light."

Day is determined upon one revolution of the earth around its polar axis.

Whether the sun, moon, stars or whatever is in place doesn't really matter to the length of an earth day.

That is why the length of a day is different depending on the planet and the rotational velocity.

 

[Christos doulos]

You are very correct.

Except, you really don't even need "light."

Day is determined upon one revolution of the earth around its polar axis.

Whether the sun, moon, stars or whatever is in place doesn't really matter to the length of an earth day.

That is why the length of a day is different depending on the planet and the rotational velocity.

My friend. God used the light as a marker in which He separated light from darkness and called it, day

 

[agedman]

Welcome back my friend!

My friend. You are using a philosophical system that easily can be abused i.e. Universalists start with a presupposition that there is no hell, so they ask, Is God not love? Is God hateful? therefore God will save all of mankind.

I only can go from what scripture says, and scripture is clear. God made EVERYTHING in 6 days

(Genesis 1:31) "And God saw EVERYTHING that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."

That includes the heavenly hosts unless you don't believe they were God's creation?

The basic difficulty with attempting to place the heavenly being (cherubim, seraphim, angels...) into the "six day creation" is the garden and the trees.

Because both (garden and trees) were created before man was situated there, it would indicate that the fall of the greatest angelic form must have happened before Gen 1:2. This is also the only real way to account for why the creation of God would be "without form, void, dark." All these attributes are exactly opposite of the truth of what the Scriptures present as God.

In Him is No darkness. He cannot create dark for He is Light. He can separate the dark from the light. He can turn out the light.

All of God's creation and even later preparations (such as the fish in Jonah) were purposed and planned. God is not the creator of confusion and disorder (without form,void). However, Satan is the very author of both.

These examples are offered to demonstrate that Satan's fall devastated the world order and obliged God's action to render Satan's work ineffective from "the foundations of the world" which predates the first day and establishes great meaning to, "Let there be light."

 

[Christos doulos]

The basic difficulty with attempting to place the heavenly being (cherubim, seraphim, angels...) into the "six day creation" is the garden and the trees.......

My friend. (Genesis 1:1) "1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

I have no problem placing angels in the 6 days, but it doesn't fit in with your presupposition.

 

[agedman]

My friend. God used the light as a marker in which He separated light from darkness and called it, day

No problem. The earth still must make one complete rotation to establish one day.

Right now, my son and daughter are just waking up on Friday to start their morning coffee. In a couple hours I will be starting my sweet bride and my Thursday evening meal. While we sleep, they work.

The point being the word "day" isn't signified by where the light is shining, but by the setting of the sun to the next setting of the sun (using Hebrew chronology). This is the Hebrew (Genesis) day.

 

[percho]

Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

the world οἰκουμένην the inhabited earth
to come (an inhabited earth in the future)


Does not Heb 2:5 imply at some point in the past or currently the inhabited earth was subject to angels?

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. ----Adam. Yes? Put him a garden where the serpent, Satan the devil already was.----No? Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who (Adam) is the figure (type) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. ---Jesus the Christ. No?

Where did Satan come from? When did he get to the earth that was made to be inhabited.

Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; ----Adam. No? The type of him to come. He was made lower than the angels so he could die when he sinned. He was made to have the total of the creation subject to him.

But now we see not yet all things put under him.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,----the last Adam

Slain before the first man Adam was created. Slain from the foundation of the world (κόσμου) system of order: Let there be light - And God rested the seventh day.

Why?????

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

 

[Christos doulos]

The point being the word "day" isn't signified by where the light is shining, but by the setting of the sun to the next setting of the sun (using Hebrew chronology). This is the Hebrew (Genesis) day.

The point my friend should be scripture. God had not created the sun yet. God said, "(Genesis 1:4-5)
"And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night."

 

[percho]

No problem. The earth still must make one complete rotation to establish one day.

Right now, my son and daughter are just waking up on Friday to start their morning coffee. In a couple hours I will be starting my sweet bride and my Thursday evening meal. While we sleep, they work.

The point being the word "day" isn't signified by where the light is shining, but by the setting of the sun to the next setting of the sun (using Hebrew chronology). This is the Hebrew (Genesis) day.

Here is a thought. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. A. or B.?

A. Gen. 1:5
B. Gen. 1:19

me thinks maybe the same

 

[Christos doulos]

Here is a thought. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. A. or B.?

A. Gen. 1:5
B. Gen. 1:19

Also 6 days of creation was an example for man to follow. If it was long periods of time and God rested on the Sabbath then are we still in the Sabbath? When does the Sabbath end?

 

[percho]

Also 6 days of creation was an example for man to follow. If it was long periods of time and God rested on the Sabbath then are we still in the Sabbath? When does the Sabbath end?

Hasn't started yet.

 

[righteousdude2]

Is this one of those...

...trick question?

According to the Bible, NO!