Were There Non-Catholic Churches Before Protestants?

[utilyan]

Your request is unreasonable. Let's turn it around.

Show me scripture that says scripture is not the final authority. Maybe then you will see my point and what scripture has been saying all along as a whole.

If my request is unreasonable then I suppose it would be unreasonable for me to show you where the bible teaches my dog is the highest authority.

My Dog is the highest authority. Show me scripture that says my Dog is not.

Whats the matter buddy? Are you telling me you can't find a bible verse that says Scripture is the only authority?

I gave you the easiest task to do. You don't think RULE#1 , INSTRUCTION#1 would be mentioned in the bible?


You say the bible teaches it...... show us the teaching then.

If i say the bible teaches my Dog is the highest authority, You don't think I should point out scripture for it?

 

[utilyan]

Do you realize how Ironicly against you are against the scripture being the highest authority?

You should be applauding me for standing beside the WORD OF GOD not the TRADITIONS OF MEN.

 

[37818]

" . . . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. . . ." -- Matthew 4:4.

Again, what sure word of God do do we have for all matters faith and practise for the Christian faith?

 

[loDebar]

AMEN!
Revelations
18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.



Amen! a FAKE RULE has been added to the book.

Now show me the bible verse that says/or teaches Scripture is the SOLE/ONLY authority.

Explain yourself

 

[utilyan]

" . . . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. . . ." -- Matthew 4:4.

Again, what sure word of God do do we have for all matters faith and practise for the Christian faith?

Amen.

Jesus Christ is the word we have.

Christians.

2 corinthians 3

2You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.


1 John 3

18Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.



WORD = WRITINGS ONLY? No. You can speak a word, you can even BE a word. Scripture shows Jesus Christ IS a word


The Greatness of scripture is not in question here. Scripture is always TRUE always right.

I can even go as far to say was not just inspired but AUTHORED by God, that Scripture is the BODY of Christ.

That said,

Show me the bible verse that says/or teaches Scripture is the SOLE/ONLY authority.



I can show you a verse against scripture SOLE/ONLY

2 Peter 3

16as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Verse says quite plainly scripture alone is dangerous, It needs proper AUTHORITATIVE GUIDANCE, TEACHING and STABILITY.

And its precisely because the lack thereof we got this mess on this thread.


:

 

[utilyan]

Explain yourself

The single most destructive rule has been scripture as we personally see it rather then the what the author means to convey.

Nazis, Jim Jones, westboro, they can all quote the bible, alone even.

Its a fake rule Sola Scriptura. Its the secret of your oldest theologians. It has not, was not and never been taught in scripture.

Its philosophy much like Calvinism that is drilled into ones head, until indoctrinated.

Pull the teaching from scripture for me. Don't try to force the teaching into scripture.


Show me where it says scripture is the ONLY AUTHORITY.

Scripture is right. not saying its wrong.

Scripture is true, not saying its false.

Scripture is useful, not saying its useless.

 

[utilyan]

I can paint you the most evil God with scripture. I can give you a case for SLAVERY even. I can have scripture say EVERYTHING I want it to say.

And is that the word of God? No, not by a long shot.

 

[loDebar]

The single most destructive rule has been scripture as we personally see it rather then the what the author means to convey.

Nazis, Jim Jones, westboro, they can all quote the bible, alone even.

Its a fake rule Sola Scriptura. Its the secret of your oldest theologians. It has not, was not and never been taught in scripture.

Its philosophy much like Calvinism that is drilled into ones head, until indoctrinated.

Pull the teaching from scripture for me. Don't try to force the teaching into scripture.


Show me where it says scripture is the ONLY AUTHORITY.

Scripture is right. not saying its wrong.

Scripture is true, not saying its false.

Scripture is useful, not saying its useless.

Are you kidding, does God lie?
Or are you saying

The single most destructive rule has been scripture as we personally see it rather then the what the author means to convey.

Nazis, Jim Jones, westboro, they can all quote the bible, alone even.

Its a fake rule Sola Scriptura. Its the secret of your oldest theologians. It has not, was not and never been taught in scripture.

Its philosophy much like Calvinism that is drilled into ones head, until indoctrinated.

Pull the teaching from scripture for me. Don't try to force the teaching into scripture.


Show me where it says scripture is the ONLY AUTHORITY.

Scripture is right. not saying its wrong.

Scripture is true, not saying its false.

Scripture is useful, not saying its useless.

2 Tim 3:15-17

 

[37818]

Amen.

Jesus Christ is the word we have.

Christians.

2 corinthians 3

2You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.


1 John 3

18Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.



WORD = WRITINGS ONLY? No. You can speak a word, you can even BE a word. Scripture shows Jesus Christ IS a word


The Greatness of scripture is not in question here. Scripture is always TRUE always right.

I can even go as far to say was not just inspired but AUTHORED by God, that Scripture is the BODY of Christ.

That said,

Show me the bible verse that says/or teaches Scripture is the SOLE/ONLY authority.



I can show you a verse against scripture SOLE/ONLY

2 Peter 3

16as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Verse says quite plainly scripture alone is dangerous, It needs proper AUTHORITATIVE GUIDANCE, TEACHING and STABILITY.

And its precisely because the lack thereof we got this mess on this thread.


:

Which Jesus Christ? He is not a written document.

 

[37818]

I can paint you the most evil God with scripture. I can give you a case for SLAVERY even. I can have scripture say EVERYTHING I want it to say.

And is that the word of God? No, not by a long shot.

I recommend a Jewish commentary to you. "The Rational Bible" on Exodus by Dennis Prager.

 

[Walter]

The fact that we Catholics place Magisterial Teaching on an equal level of authority of Scripture shouldn’t be misunderstood to mean that Scripture is reduced, or can be trumped.

Its merely a different kind of authority. One that is able to interpret and apply the Revelation of Jesus found in Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

We should allow His Spirit to give us understanding regarding Scripture, Sacred Tradition, Church Teaching, spirits, His will, etc.

 

[loDebar]

Which Jesus Christ? He is not a written document.

He is, Jesus is the Word.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

If my request is unreasonable then I suppose it would be unreasonable for me to show you where the bible teaches my dog is the highest authority.

My Dog is the highest authority. Show me scripture that says my Dog is not.

Whats the matter buddy? Are you telling me you can't find a bible verse that says Scripture is the only authority?

I gave you the easiest task to do. You don't think RULE#1 , INSTRUCTION#1 would be mentioned in the bible?


You say the bible teaches it...... show us the teaching then.

If i say the bible teaches my Dog is the highest authority, You don't think I should point out scripture for it?

Why are you disputing scripture being the sole authority PRESENTLY to reprove those that err in authority since Jesus Christ, the King of kings, is not here giving His words directly Himself?

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Do you realize how Ironicly against you are against the scripture being the highest authority?

You should be applauding me for standing beside the WORD OF GOD not the TRADITIONS OF MEN.

The irony is Jesus's words is how His authority is being given, but for the present, as for disputing the Church that is in authority when it is in error, it is done by His words which is His authority in scripture in order to reprove them.

 

[utilyan]

I recommend a Jewish commentary to you. "The Rational Bible" on Exodus by Dennis Prager.

I recommend Jews They have tradition and don't run by scripture alone.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

I recommend Jews They have tradition and don't run by scripture alone.

I don't believe they ever used any tradition that refutes the authority of the scripture unless they were sinning against God.

That means when scripture in the N.T. refutes any Christian tradition, then the authority of the scripture trumps whatever made up doctrine that some church wants it to be authority over the believers.

 

[utilyan]

Why are you disputing scripture being the sole authority PRESENTLY to reprove those that err in authority since Jesus Christ, the King of kings, is not here giving His words directly Himself?

Because Scripture being sole authority is UNBIBLICAL.

Why do you demand a UNBIBLICAL RULE?

Why do you claim its biblical and then PROVIDE NO VERSE TO BACK IT UP?

Scripture is helpful does NOT = Scripture is ONLY authority.

Jesus Christ is not dead, ask him yourself.


If God wrote a note that says "pick up your trash and do everything your mom says, I leave her in charge"

According to you, we only pick up trash. Mom has zero authority. She says go get some groceries, You say no We pick up trash alone. SOLA GARBAGO is what your pushing.

God in scripture gave authority to the church.


The very rule you push is That for something to be officially christian teaching scripture must declare it.

Therefore SHOW ME THIS RULE, ELSE its not Christian.

 

[loDebar]

Why are you disputing scripture being the sole authority PRESENTLY to reprove those that err in authority since Jesus Christ, the King of kings, is not here giving His words directly Himself?

2Ti 3:15

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16

¶
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and isprofitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Rev 22:18

¶
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

does this present an answer?

 

[utilyan]

I don't believe they ever used any tradition that refutes the authority of the scripture unless they were sinning against God.

That means when scripture in the N.T. refutes any Christian tradition, then the authority of the scripture trumps whatever made up doctrine that some church wants it to be authority over the believers.

No because scripture does not list or claim what works of scripture is scripture. The BIBLE is a SET of 66 books. BIBLE literally means BOOKSSSSSS. None contain a table of contents that tell you what books belong in the bible, however plenty of new testament works will POINT to SEPTUAGINT, And TRADITION.

The bible did not fall out of the sky in English, it is a translation of Greek that was picked up from thousdands of manuscripts where PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH Picked out what they DEEM and authorized LEGIT.

You might use a King James bible, It is the AUTHORIZED BIBLE of the ANGLICAN CHURCH.
They had their priest look over thousands of documents and say this is scripture, this is scripture and this is scripture.

And since they were CATHOLIC and often still claim to be, WHY in the world would you use THEIR BOOK and not research with your own scholar YOUR OWN BIBLE?



Scripture could and does often help refute false doctrine...... case in point:

THE idea that scripture is the ONLY AUTHORITY ,<---MADE UP DOCTRINE

 

[loDebar]

No because scripture does not list or claim what works of scripture is scripture. The BIBLE is a SET of 66 books. BIBLE literally means BOOKSSSSSS. None contain a table of contents that tell you what books belong in the bible, however plenty of new testament works will POINT to SEPTUAGINT, And TRADITION.

The bible did not fall out of the sky in English, it is a translation of Greek that was picked up from thousdands of manuscripts where PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH Picked out what they DEEM and authorized LEGIT.

You might use a King James bible, It is the AUTHORIZED BIBLE of the ANGLICAN CHURCH.
They had their priest look over thousands of documents and say this is scripture, this is scripture and this is scripture.

And since they were CATHOLIC and often still claim to be, WHY in the world would you use THEIR BOOK and not research with your own scholar YOUR OWN BIBLE?



Scripture could and does often help refute false doctrine...... case in point:

THE idea that scripture is the ONLY AUTHORITY ,<---MADE UP DOCTRINE

Rev says do not add or take away from this book. That mean the only authority