Were they really saved?

[Diggin in da Word]

It is amazing to me how some people can be so cold and judgemental. Mental illness is a real disease even if you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that it's not. There are all degrees of mental illness as well, from depression to bipolar disorder to schizophrenia. The brain is an organ just as is the heart or liver. Disease occurs in any organ of the body, but because mental disorders affect the mind and the thoughts it is assumed by some to just be a sign of self centeredness. I think this attitude is shameful and those that feel this way should repent quickly lest their own judgement fall back on them and they die in their sin and end up in hell.
I have agreed to disagree.

In Jesus' day, those with all those symptoms were recognized not as having a disease of the mind, but rather demon possession or demon oppression. It was not until psychiatry, psychology, and philosophy begain to be practiced that people began denying the truth that the mind cannot get diseased. The mind is immaterial.

The mind being diseased is nothing more than humanistic reasoning to explain away sin.

 

[Claudia_T]

You know, I have to admit I am kind of starting to see the point of view of other people here... or at least I can understand why they view things the way that they do...

hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[rbell]

I believe I've said all I can say here. IMO some of us have reached an impasse. I see numerous "rabbit trails" coming anyhoo.

Peace.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy,

yes thats it we are just very cold and heartless and judgmental.

I did not name names. I had to vent though.
And yes, Christians can be mentally ill. See:

 

[Eric B]

It is good to have compassion, I agree. But compassion includes warning of the penalty for sin.

If you see someone blindly driving down a road and you know the bridge is out just around the corner, don't you think you should try to warn them?

Are you truly showing compassion if you do not warn them?

Yes, but again, there are other "penalties for sin" besides just Hell! Else, we are all in danger. Remember, there's the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Driving down a road blindly may be foolish, and have many kinds of consequences; but we don't try to scare them straight by telling them the bridge is out, if it really isn't, or that their driving blind by itself somebow renders the bridge as being out!

In Jesus' day, those with all those symptoms were recognized not as having a disease of the mind, but rather demon possession or demon oppression. It was not until psychiatry, psychology, and philosophy begain to be practiced that people began denying the truth that the mind cannot get diseased. The mind is immaterial.

The mind being diseased is nothing more than humanistic reasoning to explain away sin.

And there goes another one of those formulaic generalities that ignores reality, and yes, many out there do believe this stuff.

The "mind" is immaterial, but the brain is not, and it is affected by physical problems. How else could it be affected by drugs, or (dare I say) alcohol? And many physical infirmities people had back then were also attributed to "demons", like "deaf and dumb spirit", person in wheelchair "bound by Satan these 18 years", etc. You cannot generalize things like that, unless you believe that any [physical infirmity is "spiritual" as well. That's just what the hypercharismatics, such as the faith healers have taken and run wild with, and your brand of fundamentalism rejects them so harshly, but you're starting to sound just like them!

 

[Claudia_T]

do you guys all see it that murderers could go to heaven too or do you just apply this to suicides? Im talking about a person who murders someone right before he dies and cant repent?

 

[Claudia_T]

I did not name names. I had to vent though.
And yes, Christians can be mentally ill. See:

its okay Amy, I really do understand and Im goofy myself soooooo

 

[xdisciplex]

The mind is immaterial.

Hear ye, hear ye!

DIDW said it. The mind is immaterial. Why don't you do a little test, DIDW and hit yourself on the head with a baseball bat and then we'll see how you function with an injured brain. Since the mind is immaterial you will not need your brain at all, right? Your spirit man will simply take over, right? :BangHead:

You know how ridiculous this statement is? If somebody puts you on drugs or gets you drunk then you also wouldn't be able to control yourself anymore. Or wait, do you ever become tired? How come?!?!
I thought the mind is immaterial. How can you allow your brain to rule you? You are not using your spiritual authority. Haven't you listened to Copeland? He said Jesus was not God because Jesus slept and God never sleeps.
Seems like your theology is pretty copelandish. This whole mind over matter stuff.


And if every single mental disorder out there is demonic why do drugs help? If it was demonic drugs would not accomplish anything. You seem to me like somebody from the 17th century who believes that when you die your soul needs an open window in order to be able to leave the house...

 

[Diggin in da Word]

That is totally idiotic, xdx. The head, the brain, both are material, physical organs, body parts. Both can be seen

The mind is something that cannot be seen

 

[tragic_pizza]

DIDW, you've just been spanked.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

he missed me, tragic. he was looking at himself in the mirror. His idiotic rambling did not affect me at all. I know the truth concerning where schitzophrenia, depression, and other things people mistake for diseases come from. Jesus told us in His Word. I believe Him before I believe someone who does not accept what He says.

 

[xdisciplex]

That is totally idiotic, xdx. The head, the brain, both are material, physical organs, body parts. Both can be seen

The mind is something that cannot be seen

No, this is not idiotic. It just proves that you are talking nonsense.
I think you have never been confronted with real issues because otherwise you could never have such a naive faith and make such ignorant statements.
You need your brain just like any other human, too!
If I put you on drugs you will freak out just like any other human,too, and your immaterial mind will not help you and you know why? Because God somehow must have thought that it's a good idea to give humans a brain. I also don't know why, but this brain is important. You can't go without it. But if you want to try to live without brain, go ahead. :wavey:

 

[Diggin in da Word]

No, this is not idiotic. It just proves that you are talking nonsense.
I think you have never been confronted with real issues because otherwise you could never have such a naive faith and make such ignorant statements.
You need your brain just like any other human, too!
If I put you on drugs you will freak out just like any other human,too, and your immaterial mind will not help you and you know why? Because God somehow must have thought that it's a good idea to give humans a brain. I also don't know why, but this brain is important. You can't go without it. But if you want to try to live without brain, go ahead. :wavey:

The brain is not the mind, xdx. Why do you insist it is?

 

[tragic_pizza]

he missed me, tragic. he was looking at himself in the mirror. His idiotic rambling did not affect me at all. I know the truth concerning where schitzophrenia, depression, and other things people mistake for diseases come from. Jesus told us in His Word. I believe Him before I believe someone who does not accept what He says.

Okay, well, whatever. You aren't allowed to speak with anyone I love about this matter, by the way. I actually care about their health.

 

[xdisciplex]

The brain is not the mind, xdx. Why do you insist it is?

I am simply saying that even a christian cannot operate without his brain but you are arguing this.
Do you not know that there are certain brain damages which can completely change the personality of a person? Oh yes. A normal person can suffer brain damage and afterwards the person becomes criminal and loses all restraints.
What do you do if this happened to you?

DIDW, answer me this question. If all these mental diseases are always demonic then why does medication or surgery help? Some people can be cured by a surgery. They simply cut out a part of the brain or implant something and that's it. This wouldn't have any effect if it was always demonic. But I bet you already have an explanation for this...

 

[Claudia_T]

I am simply saying that even a christian cannot operate without his brain ...

I have seen some try.

 

[Claudia_T]

Diggin in da Word

Do you REALLY believe that all mental problems are caused by demons? seriously?

Claudia

 

[tragic_pizza]

I have seen some try.

And Claudia wins two Internets. Well played!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

brain

One of the two components of the central nervous system, the brain is the centre of thought and emotion. It is responsible for the coordination and control of bodily activities and the interpretation of information from the senses (sight, hearing, smell, etc.).
Online Medical Dictionary

mind

1. The intellectual or rational faculty in man; the understanding; the intellect; the power that conceives, judges, or reasons; also, the entire spiritual nature; the soul; often in distinction from the body. "By the mind of man we understand that in him which thinks, remembers, reasons, wills." (Reid) "What we mean by mind is simply that which perceives, thinks, feels, wills, and desires." (Sir W. Hamilton) "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." (Rom. Xiv. 5) "The mind shall banquet, though the body pine." (Shak)

2. The state, at any given time, of the faculties of thinking, willing, choosing, and the like; psychical activity or state; as: Opinion; judgment; belief. "A fool uttereth all his mind." (Prov. Xxix. 11) "Being so hard to me that brought your mind, I fear she'll prove as hard to you in telling her mind." (Shak)

Choice; inclination; liking; intent; will. "If it be your minds, then let none go forth." (2 Kings ix. 15)

Courage; spirit.

3. Memory; remembrance; recollection; as, to have or keep in mind, to call to mind, to put in mind, etc. To have a mind or great mind, to be inclined or strongly inclined in purpose; used with an infinitive. "Sir Roger de Coverly. Told me that he had a great mind to see the new tragedy with me." . To lose one's mind, to become insane, or imbecile. To make up one's mind, to come to an opinion or decision; to determine. To put in mind, to remind. "Regard us simply as putting you in mind of what you already know to be good policy." .

Origin: AS. Mynd, gemynd; akin to OHG. Minna memory, love, G. Minne love, Dan. Minde mind, memory, remembrance, consent, vote, Sw. Minne memory, Icel. Minni, Goth. Gamunds, L. Mens, mentis, mind, Gr, Skr. Manas mind, man to think, . Cf. Comment, Man, Mean, 3d Mental, Mignonette, Minion, Mnemonic, Money.

Source: Websters Dictionary

(01 Mar 1998)
Online Medical Dictionary

The brain is not the mind, and the mind, being only understanding or mental faculty in man cannot get diseased.

 

[tragic_pizza]

I'm glad I'm not like you, sfic. It would be a sad existence.