Were they really saved?

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Jesus did say these things are caused by demon oppression and demon possession. You cannot get rid of demons by taking a pill.

You can only sedate the mind and alter it with the pills... but the demons are still there.

James said we must submit to God in orderr to be able to resist the devil, not take a pill.

 

[Claudia_T]

Here's an idea... maybe some people are demon possessed and others need medication?

wow what a concept!

 

[Lagardo]

Jesus did say these things are caused by demon oppression and demon possession. You cannot get rid of demons by taking a pill.

He did? Where is that found? 1 or 2 Hesitations?

You can only sedate the mind and alter it with the pills... but the demons are still there.

What is the mind that it can be sedated? The brain, maybe, although many behavioral medications are actually stimulants. As for altering...well...define "mind" first.

James said we must submit to God in orderr to be able to resist the devil, not take a pill.

James actually advocated prayer and annointing with oil...a common medical practice

We are so far off of the OP at this point, but please folks, when the mods come and shut this tread down, let's not reopen it elsewhere.

Come soon, mods, come soon!

 

[Lagardo]

I do with to extend my gratitude to those brothers and sisters here that disagree with me. You have given me a different perspective, and I appreciate that.

Peace be with you.

 

[Lagardo]

Here's an idea... maybe some people are demon possessed and others need medication?

wow what a concept!

Quite a concept, indeed! Probably too logical though.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I disagree with this chemical imbalance cop-out. Jesus never once said people killed or acted crazy or such because of chemical imbalances. No, he recognized what the true cause was.

 

[Lagardo]

I disagree with this chemical imbalance cop-out. Jesus never once said people killed or acted crazy or such because of chemical imbalances. No, he recognized what the true cause was.

He never said what the true cause of every instance of mental illness was either. Granted, I am not in favor of treating medically what has not been shown to be caused medically, but there are some mental problems that are clearly the result of chemical imbalances.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

He never said what the true cause of every instance of mental illness was either. Granted, I am not in favor of treating medically what has not been shown to be caused medically, but there are some mental problems that are clearly the result of chemical imbalances.

No such thing as mental illness.

As to mental problems, the mental problem that needs to change in man is his stubbornness (pride) and rebellion (disobedience) against God's Holy Word.

His mind should repent of sin and turn to God for strength and peace of mind instead of opting for pills instead of God.

 

[Claudia_T]

His Blood and Diggin in Da Word,

You know, you two guys have a point and if you just werent so hard-lined about it you might actually get people to listen to you.

I think you are both being too stubborn about it. Come on, you have to realize that some mental conditions are caused by things medication can fix just as the rest of your body can be fixed by medication.

Let me ask you something... so neither of you EVER take any medications for the rest of your bodies problems?

If so, why would you dream that your mind would never have any similar type problems requiring medications?

Claudia

 

[Lagardo]

No such thing as mental illness.

As to mental problems, the mental problem that needs to change in man is his stubbornness (pride) and rebellion (disobedience) against God's Holy Word.

His mind should repent of sin and turn to God for strength and peace of mind instead of opting for pills instead of God.

Does the same apply to heart attacks or is the brain the only organ that is immune to physical complications?

I'm a big fan of nouthetic counseling, but the brain, like any other organ can malfunction. Also, there are numerous other systems in the body that can huge effects on mood, perception, etc.

Of course, we're waaaaaaayyyyy off the OP now.

 

[Eric B]

I would not reccommend to anyone that they take pills for depression. Jesus is the only real peace. I am in great err if I send a depressed person to a head shrink to get rid of their depression.

What they need is a closer walk with Jesus, not pills.

Why advocate taking pills for something that Jesus said He would remove? Isn't that like saying 'Jesus, I don't need you'?

No such thing as mental illness.

As to mental problems, the mental problem that needs to change in man is his stubbornness (pride) and rebellion (disobedience) against God's Holy Word.

His mind should repent of sin and turn to God for strength and peace of mind instead of opting for pills instead of God.

Again, the same formulaic quick unthought-out answers that sound good, and get you off the hook, but sidestep everything that has been said. You are taking for granted your generalizations. If it should some day happen to YOU; then what?

Jesus did say these things are caused by demon oppression and demon possession. You cannot get rid of demons by taking a pill.

You can only sedate the mind and alter it with the pills... but the demons are still there.
James said we must submit to God in orderr to be able to resist the devil, not take a pill.

I disagree with this chemical imbalance cop-out. Jesus never once said people killed or acted crazy or such because of chemical imbalances. No, he recognized what the true cause was.

This discussion is progressing so fast, so if you have missed it, then here it is yet again:
Many physical infirmities people had back then were also attributed to "demons", like "deaf and dumb spirit", person who couldn't stand or walk "bound by Satan these 18 years", etc. You cannot generalize things like that, unless you believe that any [physical] infirmity is "spiritual" as well. That's just what the hypercharismatics, such as the faith healers have taken and run wild with!
You are sounding just like them!

I am sure Christ would say the some. He commands us to rebuke and reprove, exhort with all longsuffering... not pat one on back and agree that sin is not sin

But the people Christ rebuked and reporved were the self-righteous, who though they were obeying God better then everyone else, and trusting in the Law, and thus denying their own sin. Jesus did not rebuke those who genuinely came to Him for help, including the demoniacs, which according to your logic, He "should have", after all, mental illness is from demon posession, which is from the people's own sin and rejection of Christ anyway.

So you have that all backwards!

We are so far off of the OP at this point, but please folks, when the mods come and shut this tread down, let's not reopen it elsewhere.

Actually, nothing discussed here is OT at all! All of this is the underlying eisogetical basis for their answer to the OP, and for much of their doctrine, and it is good that it has all been brought out!

 

[Claudia_T]

His Blood and Diggin in Da Word,

and while were at it, do you two also advocate just praying to God any time you get sick and never taking any medications? Because as far as I know thats how it was done in the Bible.... faith healing..

 

[Claudia_T]

Heavens to Mergatroid! ..as Snagglepuss would say!

 

[Snitzelhoff]

Uh...

"And they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them."--Matthew 4:24.

My Bible shows a clear difference between having a mental problem (being "lunatick") and having a demonic problem (being "possessed with devils"). Doesn't yours?

Michael

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Heavens to Mergatroid! ..as Snagglepuss would say!

YOu guys can mock and jest all you want. Not one brain surgeon will tell you the mind gets sick. He will tell you the brain is damaged, not that the mind is sick.

Nowhere does the Bible say anyone was in a wheelchair for 18 years.

Sad that the society believes that doctors are the first ones that they should rely on for problems when the Lord said He is the Healer, to look to Him. When the Word says the Lord delivereth the righteous man from his afflictions, but man would rather get a happy pill that only hides the true reason he has unstable thoughts... sin.

 

[Lagardo]

Ceratinly two different words, although in all fairness, some believe seleniazomai to mean epileptic. Of course, it is derived from the word moon, so lunatick is a good translation.

Clearly, Matthew believed there to be a difference between those who were daimonizomai (demon posessed) and those who were seleniazomai (lunaticks).

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Uh...

"And they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them."--Matthew 4:24.

My Bible shows a clear difference between having a mental problem (being "lunatick") and having a demonic problem (being "possessed with devils"). Doesn't yours?

Michael

Lunatick there means 'moon-struck'. Not what you are trying to make it. Also, they brought that lunatick to Jesus, not some quack doctor that pumped pills in his bloodstream... and Jesus healed them. These people know who they were supposed to rely on for healing.

 

[Claudia_T]

YOu guys can mock and jest all you want. Not one brain surgeon will tell you the mind gets sick. He will tell you the brain is damaged, not that the mind is sick.

Nowhere does the Bible say anyone was in a wheelchair for 18 years.

Sad that the society believes that doctors are the first ones that they should rely on for problems when the Lord said He is the Healer, to look to Him. When the Word says the Lord delivereth the righteous man from his afflictions, but man would rather get a happy pill that only hides the true reason he has unstable thoughts... sin.

I wasnt mocking and jesting, thats just something I say when frustrated... a childhood cartoon I used to watch, Snagglepuss..

But at any rate, I know where you are coming from and I do not believe in popping a pill for everything either, believe me I dont. I think you have a good point that people ought to listen to.

Its just that I think usually things are not all black and white, sometimes people have chemical imbalances and things of that nature..

Im a big believer in forgetting about ones own self and going about to help others as a way to relieve mental depression and I think that is one of the biggest causes of it in normal cases... just being self centered,

However youve gotta have a little common sense to realize that this isnt always the case... sometimes you need medical attention. Just as you do with your body. You arent an advocate of never taking medicine for your body are you? Jesus always healed people so if you are going to take the complete hard line than you've got to go with it all the way.

Claudia

 

[Lagardo]

Lunatick there means 'moon-struck'. Not what you are trying to make it. Also, they brought that lunatick to Jesus, not some quack doctor that pumped pills in his bloodstream... and Jesus healed them. These people know who they were supposed to rely on for healing.

As did the paralytics. Are you suggesting that somoene should not see a doctor if they they sever their spinal chord?

 

[Claudia_T]

well I had no idea these guys were that far to the right about all of this.