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Were they really saved?

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Albert Barnes Commentary:
Those which were lunatick. This name is given to the disease from the Latin name of the moon, (Luna.) It has the same origin in the Greek. It was given because it was formerly imagined that it was affected by the increase or the decrease of the moon. The name is still retained, although it is not certain that the moon has any effect on the disease. On this point physicians are not determined, but no harm arises from the use of the name. It is mentioned only in this place, and in Mt 17:15. It was probably the falling sickness, or the epilepsy, the same as the disease mentioned Mr 9:18-20; Lu 9:39-40.

Geneva Bible notes:
o. Who at every full moon or the change of the moon, are troubled and diseased.

ISBE:
LUNATIC(K)
lu'-na-tik:

I. Epilepsy.

1. Incorrect Translation:

The English word "lunatic," which in popular speech signifies a sufferer from any mental derangement, whether periodic or chronic, other than congenital idiocy, appears in the King James Version as a translation of the Greek word seleniazomai, in the two passages where it occurs. In the Revised Version (British and American) the word has very properly been displaced by the strictly accurate term "epileptic." This change is justified not only by the extra-Biblical usage (see Liddell and Scott, under the word), but clearly enough by Mt 17:15 (compare Mt 4:24), where epilepsy is circumstantially described.

2. Original Meaning:

The original meaning of the term seleniazomai, "moon-struck," is connected with the popular belief, widespread and of strange persistency, that the moon, in certain of its phases, is injurious to human beings, especially in the case of diseases of a periodic or remittent character. There are no data by which to determine whether, in the New Testament times, this particular word represented a living and active belief or had passed into the state of usage in which the original metaphor disappears, and the word simply indicates the fact signified without reference to the idea embodied in the etymology. We still use the word "lunatic" to signify a person mentally diseased, although we have long since ceased to believe in the moon's influence in such cases.

II. Madness.

The Bible designates "madness," or alienation of mind, by various terms, all of which seem to be onomatopoetic. These various words seem to be derived from the strange and fierce or mournful cries uttered by the unfortunate victims of this dread malady. In De 28:34 the word "maddened" is meshugga`, participle of shagha` (compare also 1Sa 21:15). With this corresponds the word mainomai, in the New Testament. In 1 Sam 21:13 (Hebrew 14) the word is a form of the verb chalal, which is also a derivative from the sound indicated.

In certain cases, though by no means uniformly, madness is ascribed to demon-possession (Lu 8:26 f) . One is struck by the fact that mental derangement occupies a very small place in Scripture.

Louis Matthews Sweet
 
In Matthew 17, the woman brought her son to Jesus and told Him the son was lunatic. The Bible records that Jesus rebuked the devil and he departed out of the child and the child was cured. Lunacy (epilepsy) is caused, not by the brain, but by a devil. This verse proves it.
 

Lagardo

New Member
Diggin in da Word said:
In Matthew 17, the woman brought her son to Jesus and told Him the son was lunatic. The Bible records that Jesus rebuked the devil and he departed out of the child and the child was cured. Lunacy (epilepsy) is caused, not by the brain, but by a devil. This verse proves it.

No, it proves that this child's behavior was caused by a demon.
 

Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
Diggin in da Word said:
YOu guys can mock and jest all you want. Not one brain surgeon will tell you the mind gets sick. He will tell you the brain is damaged, not that the mind is sick.
And if the brain is damaged; what happens to the mind? This is the one question you have completely avoided.

Nowhere does the Bible say anyone was in a wheelchair for 18 years.
My mistake:eek:
In the rush; I'm thinking "wheelchair", but while they may not have had those back then, the woman in Luke 13 did have a "spirit of infirmity" for 18 years, by which she could not walk or even stand upright.

Sad that the society believes that doctors are the first ones that they should rely on for problems when the Lord said He is the Healer, to look to Him. When the Word says the Lord delivereth the righteous man from his afflictions, but man would rather get a happy pill that only hides the true reason he has unstable thoughts... sin.
Now again, you sound just like the physical health gospel preachers and the faith healers.
Why not quote their favorite verse "By His stripes ye are healed". Then tell everyone to just "release their faith", and send you a $1000 vow, and you'll pray with them for that healing, and they'll throw those physical or mental crutches away.
Your name should be "Diggin' myself furtha in da ground to avoid admittin' dat my doctrinz is WRONG"!:laugh:
 

Amy.G

New Member
Diggin in da Word said:
Albert Barnes Commentary:
Those which were lunatick. This name is given to the disease from the Latin name of the moon, (Luna.) It has the same origin in the Greek. It was given because it was formerly imagined that it was affected by the increase or the decrease of the moon. The name is still retained, although it is not certain that the moon has any effect on the disease. On this point physicians are not determined, but no harm arises from the use of the name.
Well, I think this just about says it all. It's the moons' fault.
 

Snitzelhoff

New Member
So, Diggin', have we just discovered a mistranslation in the KJV?! :tongue3:

Did I open up yet another can o' worms in this thread?
 

TaliOrlando

New Member
Diggin in da Word said:
Lunatick there means 'moon-struck'. Not what you are trying to make it. Also, they brought that lunatick to Jesus, not some quack doctor that pumped pills in his bloodstream... and Jesus healed them. These people know who they were supposed to rely on for healing.

Question: Didnt Paul tell Timothy to take some wine for his pain. God used Timothy to heal many however told Timothy to take a remidy. Sometimes there is a purpose for things wouldnt you think? Thanks Tali
 
In the rush; I'm thinking "wheelchair", but while they may not have had those back then, the woman in Luke 13 did have a "spirit of infirmity" for 18 years, by which she could not walk or even stand upright.

Another mistake. The Word does not say she could not walk, it says she was 'bowed over and could not lift herself'.

My mother is bent over and cannot stand straight, but she certainly can walk.
 
Now again, you sound just like the physical health gospel preachers and the faith healers.
Why not quote their favorite verse "By His stripes ye are healed". Then tell everyone to just "release their faith", and send you a $1000 vow, and you'll pray with them for that healing, and they'll throw those physical or mental crutches away.
Your name should be "Diggin' myself furtha in da ground to avoid admittin' dat my doctrinz is WRONG"!:laugh:

that verse 'By His stripes...' is not speaking of a physical healing, but rather spiritual. So I will not join that crowd. But if you want to make a donation....
 
TaliOrlando said:
Question: Didnt Paul tell Timothy to take some wine for his pain. God used Timothy to heal many however told Timothy to take a remidy. Sometimes there is a purpose for things wouldnt you think? Thanks Tali

Not pills for mental problems. Try Christ, the effects are refreshing and last much longer.
 

TaliOrlando

New Member
Diggin in da Word said:
Not pills for mental problems. Try Christ, the effects are refreshing and last much longer.

When it comes to pills I agree on certain things because they only cause more problems in the long run. However about Paul Telling Timothy about the wine that also shows that sometimes we must go through certain issues right?
 
TaliOrlando said:
When it comes to pills I agree on certain things because they only cause more problems in the long run. However about Paul Telling Timothy about the wine that also shows that sometimes we must go through certain issues right?

Physical problems God's Word does allow certain medications for, but not mental. Nowhere in the Word is pills for mental problems advocated.

Also, we, with so much at our fingertips in the line of medicines, are quick to run to the doctor or pharmacist for those meds before praying for God to remove the malady. We have become a people who seem to forget God as a healer or God as a strength through sickness ( I was guilty of this not too many years ago). Our mindset is 'I'm sick, I better get to a doctor.'

Now, I think all who name Christ should agree with that.
 

Claudia_T

New Member
Diggin in da Word said:
a boil on a body is much different that demon oppression, wouldn't you think?


Yes but someone showed you wine for the inside of your body and now a fig poultice for the outside of your body... things are sometimes employed by God onto and into the body to help healing. And it isnt always demonic oppression.

If a pill can effect the brain and make a person "nutty" and act bizarre then couldnt one effect the mind to make it better as well?
 
Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

5331. pharmakeia
Search for G5331 in KJVSL
jarmakeia pharmakeia far-mak-i'-ah

from 5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):--sorcery, witchcraft.

See Greek 5332

Neither repented they of their sorceries. People run for pills where pills are not needed.
 

Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
Diggin in da Word said:
Another mistake. The Word does not say she could not walk, it says she was 'bowed over and could not lift herself'.

My mother is bent over and cannot stand straight, but she certainly can walk.
The point is, it was still a physical problem attributed to a "spirit". By your generalistic logic then, all physical problems are caused by demons, and should be remedied by the person "just going to Jesus the healer".
that verse 'By His stripes...' is not speaking of a physical healing, but rather spiritual. So I will not join that crowd. But if you want to make a donation....
The "spiritual healing" it is talking about is salvation. By turning this to "mental" health, supposedly caused by sin and demons, you still make the same mistake as the physical health gospel, andagain make the gospel and our primary "needs" about something other than salvation. (Just like the humanists you criticize, also)
Not pills for mental problems. Try Christ, the effects are refreshing and last much longer.
Again, with the nice quips. Do you even know what that stuff you're parroting means?
Physical problems God's Word does allow certain medications for, but not mental. Nowhere in the Word is pills for mental problems advocated.

Also, we, with so much at our fingertips in the line of medicines, are quick to run to the doctor or pharmacist for those meds before praying for God to remove the malady. We have become a people who seem to forget God as a healer or God as a strength through sickness ( I was guilty of this not too many years ago). Our mindset is 'I'm sick, I better get to a doctor.'

Now, I think all who name Christ should agree with that.
So maybe the hypercharismatic faith healers are partly right? God frequently performs physical healing? (And of course, if He doesn't it's just His will for that person to suffer!). And again, the if the physical brain is damaged or infected with chemicals, or whatever, do you still think the mind (mental faculty) can be unaffected?

P.S. Those scriptures you just posted are about unneccesary drugs for pleasure (highs, etc), or being bewitched by a magician, or whatever; not medicine. You're taking more scriptures out of context.
 
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Claudia_T

New Member
Diggin in da Word said:
Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

5331. pharmakeia
Search for G5331 in KJVSL
jarmakeia pharmakeia far-mak-i'-ah

from 5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):--sorcery, witchcraft.

See Greek 5332

Neither repented they of their sorceries. People run for pills where pills are not needed.


Yeah I know all about that aspect. At least you are consistent then.

Claudia
 
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