Were they really saved?

[xdisciplex]

Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

5331. pharmakeia
Search for G5331 in KJVSL
jarmakeia pharmakeia far-mak-i'-ah

from 5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):--sorcery, witchcraft.

See Greek 5332

Neither repented they of their sorceries. People run for pills where pills are not needed.

Listen, if you have high cholesterol and rather die of a heart attack instead of taking something then this is your choice but please stop with this hardcore nonsense, it ain't funny anymore.
What are you trying to prove? That you're the godliest? If you think medicine = magic then Luke was a magician, allright. I guess you would have rebuked Luke and you would first of all have explained him that medicine is evil and that people need no medicine. All they need is JEEEESUS. Boy, what a pity that you didn't live 2000 years ago. You would have revolutionized everything. :laugh:
I wonder if you ever dare using an oven or a microwave. Isn't this also evil?
What do you need this for? Do you not have enough faith in Jesus to feed you with manna?

Oh ye of little faith.....

 

[Diggin in da Word]

The point is, it was still a physical problem attributed to a "spirit". By your generalistic logic then, all physical problems are caused by demons, and should be remedied by the person "just going to Jesus the healer".
The "spiritual healing" it is talking about is salvation. By turning this to "mental" health, supposedly caused by sin and demons, you still make the same mistake as the physical health gospel, andagain make the gospel and our primary "needs" about something other than salvation. (Just like the humanists you criticize, also)
Again, with the nice quips. Do you even know what that stuff you're parroting means?
So maybe the hypercharismatic faith healers are partly right? God frequently performs physical healing? (And of course, if He doesn't it's just His will for that person to suffer!). And again, the if the physical brain is damaged or infected with chemicals, or whatever, do you still think the mind (mental faculty) can be unaffected?

P.S. Those scriptures you just posted are about unneccesary drugs for pleasure (highs, etc), or being bewitched by a magician, or whatever; not medicine. You're taking more scriptures out of context.

The greek word for sorceries means medication. look it up

 

[Claudia_T]

Diggin,

I respect you for standing by what you believe and for being consistant and for believing that you should turn to Jesus for everything. Not too many people believe in that nowadays.

I think its admirable.

Also for not being afraid of what people will think of you.

Claudia

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Listen, if you have high cholesterol and rather die of a heart attack instead of taking something then this is your choice but please stop with this hardcore nonsense, it ain't funny anymore.
What are you trying to prove? That you're the godliest? If you think medicine = magic then Luke was a magician, allright. I guess you would have rebuked Luke and you would first of all have explained him that medicine is evil and that people need no medicine. All they need is JEEEESUS. Boy, what a pity that you didn't live 2000 years ago. You would have revolutionized everything. :laugh:
I wonder if you ever dare using an oven or a microwave. Isn't this also evil?
What do you need this for? Do you not have enough faith in Jesus to feed you with manna?

Oh ye of little faith.....

I doubt I would have revolutionized anything. They had Peter and John performing miracles in Acts, and Paul showing miracles by the power of God. Yet many still hated them and eventually killed them. If God had chosen me to serve Him in that time, I would more than likely have been rejected by man then as welll as now. But I am not here to impress man, I am a member of the body of Christ trying to exhort people to turn to Him if they claim to love Him.

Because I trust God for my healing I have little faith? Wow!

I can just as easily say since you don't trust God to heal you but instead run to the pharmacist for pills that you are of little faith.

 

[xdisciplex]

No, because you come across as totally judgmental and arrogant.

 

[Eric B]

The basic definition of the Greek work may say "medications" in Strong's, but that is only a generic term for a substance that has some effect in the body. when I said "medicinal", I meant for alleviating sickness. Strong's knows it's not this, because it then says "magic"; and the next word has "poisoner" in there. So the Bible does not condemn medicine (unless it is being misused, to create highs, altered states of consciousness, etc).
You are sounding more and more like those radical faith-healers! Are you sure you're an IFB?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Diggin,

I respect you for standing by what you believe and for being consistant and for believing that you should turn to Jesus for everything. Not too many people believe in that nowadays.

I think its admirable.

Also for not being afraid of what people will think of you.

Claudia

Don't admire me, I am not anything but His servant. He deserves all Glory and Honor.

 

[Lagardo]

Come soon, mods, come soon.

:BangHead:

 

[Diggin in da Word]

No, because you come across as totally judgmental and arrogant.

The truth is, I stand on and preach unswervingly the Word and it rubs against your beliefs. This all started with my statement agreeing with the Word that suicides will not inherit the kingdom. You, and others disagree, and so, you attack me as being arrogant, judgmental, and of little faith.

That is what the problem is. Your feelings are hurt that I would trespass on your beliefs.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

The basic definition of the Greek work may say "medications" in Strong's, but that is only a generic term for a substance that has some effect in the body. when I said "medicinal", I meant for alleviating sickness. Strong's knows it's not this, because it then says "magic"; and the next word has "poisoner" in there. So the Bible does not condemn medicine (unless it is being misused, to create highs, altered states of consciousness, etc).
You are sounding more and more like those radical faith-healers! Are you sure you're an IFB?

It is sad that I cannot use the Word 'murder' for killed in Acts 16:27 because there are other definitions for the word given.

But you can say all the words for sorcery apply in Revelation.

In other words, the Word says what you want it to say.

 

[Eric B]

It is sad that I cannot use the Word 'murder' for killed in Acts 16:27 because there are other definitions for the word given.

But you can say all the words for sorcery apply in Revelation.

In other words, the Word says what you want it to say.

I never argued or said anything about the word "murder" in Acts, and was not even involved in that part of the discussion, so you cannot hold that up as an inconsistency on my part. Whatever the word in Acts is, it doesn't change what this word in Rev. is.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Eric, do you believe that suicide is murder? That is one of the choices for the word in the greek.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Acts 16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

337. anaireo
Search for G337 in KJVSL
anairew anaireo an-ahee-reh'-o

from 303 and (the active of) 138; to take up, i.e. adopt; by implication, to take away (violently), i.e. abolish, murder:--put to death, kill, slay, take away, take up.

See Greek 303
See Greek 138

 

[Lagardo]

The point of the earlier discussion was that the Bible does not use the specific word for murder which it used elsewhere. It was actually a point made as a rebuttle.

 

[Eric B]

Eric, do you believe that suicide is murder? That is one of the choices for the word in the greek.

I don't even have an argument for the word in Acts. I haven't looked it up, and that part of the discussion was of little interest to me. My point always was, suicide may technically or whatever be "murder" of self, but them, along with murderers of others are declared/judged "murderers" and described in those scriptures only if they are not in Christ, or it is "not counted against them" if they are in Christ, and their status in Christ is not suddenly revoked or declared never being in existance because they yield to the flesh that time and commit an act; or because they would not be alive to "repent" of it.
And if you think that's teaching "license to kill", then you are not understanding God's graciousness (see Matt.20), and trying to be His partner in judging, forgetting that sin shall be chastised for believers at the Judgment Seat of Christ; so that nobody is "getting away" with anything.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I don't even have an argument for the word in Acts. I haven't looked it up, and that part of the discussion was of no interest to me. the point is, suicide may be "murder" of self, but them along with murderers of others are declared/judged "murderers" and described in those scriptures only if they are not in Christ, or it is "not counted against them" if they are in Christ, and their status in Christ is not suddenly revoked or declared never being existance because they yiend to the flesh and commit an act, or because they would not be alive to "repent" of it.
And if you think that's teaching "license to kill", then you are not understanding God's graciousness (see Matt.20), and trying to be His partner in judging, forgetting that sin shall be chastised for believers at the Judgment Seat of Christ; so that nobody is "getting away" with anything.

and we know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. clear as the clearest water God could create.

David was a man after God's own heart, yet he murdered. We know he repented of that murder and God forgave him. But a murder of self cannot be repented of. God has to be true to His Word. He said all murderers have their part in the lake of fire. that is exactly what will happen.

The tree has revealed itself to have been evil all along, just as Judas who companied with the Apostles finally revealed His true nature... lost.

btw, the Christian will not be judged for sin at the judgment seat of Christ. The Christian's sin was judged at the cross. The Christian will be judged for works at the JSoC.

 

[Eric B]

And that has been the problem. You define "repenting for sin" as some act that must occur AFTER a given act of sin. That's what both the Campbellists and Catholics have argued. (So now, you sound like both the charismatics, on healing, and the Catholics, on penance! I thought IFB's were so against both groups!)
And then, to suggest that "the tree has been corrupt all along" would mean that the true Christian cannot ever commit sin, and statements like "no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" is not license for you to go and make the same mistake as many religiously liberal and worldly people who think that literal "killing" is worse than anything else, like they're "good" and going to heaven because "I never killed anybody". (So you're sounding like the world too). Any sin will keep you out of Heaven if you stand before God and are charged with it/it is counted against you. And remember what Jesus waid "murder" really includes (not just plysical, literal) in the Sermon on the mount!

 

[Diggin in da Word]

And that has been the problem. You define "repenting for sin" as some act that must occur AFTER a given act of sin. That's what both the Campbellists and Catholics have argued. (So now, you sound like both the charismatics, on healing, and the Catholics, on penance! I thought IFB's were so against both groups!)

I am for God's Word. He will not compromise and go back on His Word. He said no good tree will bear evil fruit. Did He not? if the tree bears evil fruit before dying, wouldn't His statement be untrue if it were a good tree?

 

[Eric B]

Again, "evil fruit" would be any sin, then. Do you ever sin, including what Jesus defines as "murder" in the heart? That is bad fruit, by your definition. The Gospel tells us how not to have that counted against us. We grow, and bear good fruit, but we still sin. ("Bad fruit" would be more long the lines of not growing or changing your life at all; not that a person ever commits a sin after conversion).

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Again, "evil fruit" would be any sin. Do you ever sin, including what Jesus defines as "murder" in the heart? That is bad fruit. the Gospel tells us how not to have that counted against us.

Yes, the Bible does tell us how to not have it counted against us... 'Except ye also repent, ye shall likewise perish.'

And that is my point. suicides cannot repent after the fact. nor can they repent before the act.