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Westcott and Hort...

Askjo

New Member
Originally posted by natters:
Michelle said "Westcott and Hort were heretics/occultists"

False witness.
Natters, no proof!
Michelle said "The KJB translators believed in the deity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and the infallibility of his words. Westcott and Hort did not."

False witness.
Natters, no proof!
Askjo said " Right now they are in hell."

False witness
Natters, no proof!
Askjo said "W/H were unbelievers who deceived you"

False witness
Natters, no proof!
Askjo said "Westcott did not believe that Heaven is PLACE."

False witness.
Natters, no proof!
Askjo said "Hort did not believe that the Christ is God."

False witness.
Natters, no proof!
Michelle said "their life and actions, and involvements say and show the opposite of what was written in that."

False witness.
Natters, no proof!

You have no proof to say, "false witness"!!

You have REAL problem with Westcott's own writing. Let's look at what Westcott WROTE:

"The 'bosom of the Father' (like Heaven) is a state and not a place."

Westcott quotation shows that he does NOT believe in it.

Do you think Westcott is with the Lord in Heaven?

You have REAl problem with Hort's own writing. Look at what Hort WROTE:

"Paul speaks of God as enabling him to have an inner vision and perception of His Son.."

Your problem here is HERESY! An inner vision could NOT have blinded Paul.

Do you think Hort is with the Lord in Heaven? For sure, Paul would accuse Hort such as John 5:45-47.

michelle said "They were wolves in sheep's clothing, and you are decieved."

False witness.
The Scripture said to YOU, "FALSE WITNESS"!

Matthew 7:15 (KJV)
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Michelle said "Only God knows if their hearts changed prior to their death."

Tell that to Askjo, he's the one claiming to know what only God could know.
Michelle and I know they are not in Heaven. I agree with Michelle's comment, "Only God knows if their hearts changed prior to their death."
 

Askjo

New Member
Originally posted by natters:
False witness.
Repeatedly! Michelle and I can see it repeatedly because we realize that you are a false witness.
My phonebook does not affect any doctrines. Therefore, it is the Words of God?
Is your phonebook the Words of God? WOW! You mock God's Words. On other word, you blaspheme God's Words.
Westcott did not say he did not believe in the Book of Genesis. He like most Anglicans did believe it but doubted how literal the first three chapters were (the writings of Moses are much more than the first three chapters, by the way). Wescott did believe God created everything, as is evident in other quotes.
Your comment contradicts with the Scriptures: John 5:45-47.
Askjo said "John 5:45-47 because this Scripture is a slander against W/H."

No it isn't
That is very obvious to show YOU ignore the evidences.
 

Askjo

New Member
Originally posted by natters:
Askjo said "W/H did NOT believe in the Book of Genesis"

From this link:

"I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth...This acknowledgement of God as the Creator of things visible and invisible brings with it many deep and helpful thoughts. It reminds us that as all that is came into existence by the will and power of God, so it is sustained by Him alone; for the fact of creation involves the necessity of preservation, of unfolding. It reminds us that the greatest and least objects by which we are surrounded, the Sun in its glory and the stars in their countless multitude: mountains and all hills: fruitful trees and all cedars: beasts and all cattle: worms and feathered fowls were made by Him who made us, and that they therefore fill a place in His vast counsel of love, and minister to His glory." ("The Historic Faith", B.F. Westcott, page 38, 1890)
This link that you provided is Febraury 18, 1890. This link contradicts with the Scriptures: John 5:45-47.

Westcott wrote on March 4, 1890 :

"No one now, I suppose, holds that the first three Chapters of Genesis, for example, give a literal history -- I could never understand how any one reading them with open eyes could think they did."

The dates between the link and Westcott's writing contradict with the Scriptures. Sorry!
 

Askjo

New Member
February 18, 1890 refers to Westcott's belief.
March 4, 1890 refers to Westcott's denial.

This evidence shows that Westcott was an unbeliever because this dates are very obvious to prove Westcott's contradictory comments (See before and after).
 

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
Isn't it amazing how attacks on the character of W/H mean something and are important,but attacks on the KJV committee mean nothing and are irrelevant?

The dehatehere should be the quality if the translation,not the character of the men.
 

David J

New Member
Askjo said,"Michelle and I know they are not in Heaven."

Yet again you play God! You DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR A FACT! I really hope that W&H were saved but I dare not say that they are lost based on KJVO lies and distortions coming from Gail(god and)A Riplinger etc....

Would a mod please edit or rebuke this slander coming from Askjo? It's on thing to say that I think they were lost but it's another thing to say that they are in Hell.

Would you say the same thing about the AV translators Askjo?

Maybe if you would stop foaming at the mouth and look into the issue honestly then you might change your mind or atleast post something that is not slander and lies. I was once a KJVO but I sought truth and truth took me out of KJVOism!
 

michelle

New Member
--------------------------------------------------
Isn't it amazing how attacks on the character of W/H mean something and are important,but attacks on the KJV committee mean nothing and are irrelevant?

The dehatehere should be the quality if the translation,not the character of the men.
--------------------------------------------------

Go back and read all the links I provided, and then maybe you will figure out the reason why.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
 

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by David J:
Askjo said,"Michelle and I know they are not in Heaven."

Yet again you play God! You DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR A FACT! I really hope that W&H were saved but I dare not say that they are lost based on KJVO lies and distortions coming from Gail(god and)A Riplinger etc....

Would a mod please edit or rebuke this slander coming from Askjo? It's on thing to say that I think they were lost but it's another thing to say that they are in Hell.

Would you say the same thing about the AV translators Askjo?

Maybe if you would stop foaming at the mouth and look into the issue honestly then you might change your mind or atleast post something that is not slander and lies. I was once a KJVO but I sought truth and truth took me out of KJVOism!
Since it was not an attack on another poster I will leave it.

I think it shows the purely judgemental attitude of one side of the debate here. It does more damage to their cause than it helps them.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Isn't it amazing how attacks on the character of W/H mean something and are important,but attacks on the KJV committee mean nothing and are irrelevant?
In KJV language it's called a "respecter of persons".

HankD
 

natters

New Member
Akjo repeatedly said "Natters, no proof!"

I have provided proof, you have simply rejected it. I have given first-hand evidence, and you (like all honest investigators and judges when examining evidence) have rejected first-hand evidence so you can cling to 4th-hand evidence.

Askjo said "You have REAL problem with Westcott's own writing. Let's look at what Westcott WROTE: "The 'bosom of the Father' (like Heaven) is a state and not a place." Westcott quotation shows that he does NOT believe in it."

I see you've been reading the slanderer Waite (or reading another slanderer that read the slanderer Waite). Waite is notorious for twisting quotes completely out of context. Do you have the context of that 4th-hand quote? Do you know what else Westcott said about heaven? Have you read the book this quote comes from?

Askjo said "You have REAl problem with Hort's own writing. Look at what Hort WROTE: "Paul speaks of God as enabling him to have an inner vision and perception of His Son.." Your problem here is HERESY! An inner vision could NOT have blinded Paul.

Again relying on a fellow slanderer for your information. Do you have the context of that 4th-hand quote? Have you read the book this quote comes from? Do you realize that this quote is about Paul's understanding at the event, and Hort is not saying it precludes or replaces the external event? BTW, the external light was not what blinded Paul. I'll let you figure out why.

Askjo said "The Scripture said to YOU, "FALSE WITNESS"!"

No it didn't.

Askjo said "Michelle and I know they are not in Heaven. I agree with Michelle's comment, "Only God knows if their hearts changed prior to their death.""

Those are contradictory statements. How can you know they are not in heaven if you don't know if God changed their hearts prior to their death? Verily, thou art confused.

Askjo said "You have no proof to refute her."

I have provided first-hand proof.

Askjo said "You said W/H are false witnesses because you disagree with their writing."

What are you talking about?

Askjo said "Is your phonebook the Words of God? WOW! You mock God's Words. On other word, you blaspheme God's Words."

No, I did not say my phonebook is the Words of God. I was simply pointing out the fallacy of your reasoning that said that something was the Words of God if it did not affect any doctrines.

Askjo said "Your comment contradicts with the Scriptures: John 5:45-47."

No it doesn't.

Askjo said "That is very obvious to show YOU ignore the evidences."

Quite the contrary. I have read much first-hand evidence. How much first-hand evidence have you read? Or are you limited to 3rd and 4th hand slander?

Askjo said "Why did it NOT add others? HUSH?"

I still don't understand your point. What others did the link not add? What is "HUSH"?

Askjo said "February 18, 1890 refers to Westcott's belief. March 4, 1890 refers to Westcott's denial."

No, the quotes together explain better overall what he believed. Did you know Westcott, like many othordox believers today, believe Genesis 1-3 is poetical in structure, and that Westcott said, in the same paragraph as your "denial" quote, "Poetry is, I think, a thousand times more true than History"? No, I don't think you did. How can Westcott deny something he calls "truth" in the same paragraph. Obviously you have a quote that is ripped out of context.
 

natters

New Member
Michelle said "These men did not believe Jesus Christ is God. They only believed he was enlightened with the Christ, just as they believed was the potential for every other human being."

I am still waiting for quotes showing this to be true. Until then, I shall consider you a slanderer. Psalm 101:5, Prov 10:18.
 

natters

New Member
Askjo said "What is your first-hand proof?"

Their books, in my hand and online at the link I provided. Not from what someone else says they said. Not from what some website somewhere copy/pasted from some other website that copy/pasted from some pamplet that copy/pasted from what someone's second cousin heard from a radio broadcast that copy/pasted from Waite's slanderous and biased and deceptive and tragically poor excuse for "research" into their writings.

How many books of theirs have you held in your hand and read, first hand?
 

Scott J

Active Member
Site Supporter
Askjo, Have you ever read a first hand quote from Westcott or Hort? Or, have they always come through the filter of KJVO literature.
 

Marcia

Active Member
Posted by Michelle:
If you put on discernment, and you actually knew how and what gnostics thought, and you recognize not only what they tried to cover in those chapters with christian terminology, but their studies, comments on those studies, their life and their associates, you would see the truth.
How about these statements by Westcott:
[bolding is mine]
As Christians we believe in God: we believe also in Jesus Christ. It is, let us boldly avow it, an amazing faith. We cast the burden of our lives upon Him Who, very man, has borne it upon earth, upon Him Who has fulfilled by living, dying, rising again, every promise to Jew or Greek through which the Father encouraged the world to look for redemption and consummation:
upon Him Whom we confess in the fulness of His
Deity as the only Son of God , and in the absolute-ness of His sovereignty as our Lord.
From
http://www.tegarttech.com/wh/books/historicfaith/chap4.html
and

...to be continued...
 
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