What 3 verses say that a lost man cannot believe the gospel?

[SGO]

"... I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

 

[canadyjd]

John 10:25-26 “But ye believe not because you are not of my sheep...”26 “My sheep hear My voice and follow Me....”

Jesus says it in the negative, i.e., the reason they do not believe is because they weren’t His sheep. Jesus did not say they were not His sheep because they didn’t believe. Jesus said the reason they didn’t believe was because they were not His sheep.

Then He says it in the positive, His sheep hear His voice and follow Him, ever time He calls. He loses none of His sheep that He calls by name.

Notice, in context, it is a specific call. He calls His sheep by name. It is not a general call and all those who respond become His sheep. They are His sheep before He calls them and He already knows them by name.

peace to you

 

[Dave G]

HE IS PLEASED TO SAVE ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE.

Amen.
Now, why do they believe, Barry?

 

[Dave G]

Again stop reading yourself into every text.

Stop telling me not to believe the words on the page as if they aren't talking to me or that they are somehow not intended for me as a believer and I can't take comfort in them, Barry.
I'm just going to ignore you when you do that, OK?

This is the issue with Calvinism and Charismatic/ Pentecostals . They read every verse as if its about themselves in 2020 .

The word of God is for everyone that believes...
From Abel onward.

It is not for a certain set of believers from a certain time frame, Barry.
I have no idea where you get this notion from, but to me it is not the Bible.

Yes there is context...
No, there's nothing that cannot be learned from.

 

[Dave G]

Calvinism and context never go together . I don't think I've seen as yet any context or expounding on any text so far from a Calvinist. Its always . " well it says in this one verse in John, and back over here in this one verse in levitucus it says this , and back over to hebrews this one verse , then over to Mark , back to Genesis, over to Corinthians, to Exodus, Revelation, Mathew" . All one verse ??

Barry,
You really don't understand that what God says in one letter or book, carries over into other places as well, do you?
That what He says about a certain subject in the Old Testament, for example, is just as valid and dovetails with something that He said in the New...

Because it is ALL God's word, cover to cover.

 

[Calminian]

There are many Scriptures that speak of instances where a lost man gets to the point of no return, and his darkened. Hebrews 6 comes to mind.

Heb. 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed.a In the end it will be burned.​

2 Peter says it's better to never know the way, then to know it and turn their back.

2Pet. 2:17 These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful wordsa and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escapingb from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.​

The hardening of the heart is a real thing. God will harden hearts after a period of enlightenment.

John 12:35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going.​

 

[Barry Johnson]

Amen.
Now, why do they believe, Barry?

Acts 13 is a great example . These Gentiles hear the message and are wanting to hear it again .42¶And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
When they hear the Gospel they incline themselves, they say " yes this Jesus Died for us , we choose to believe the Gospel ,we understand this means eternal life ,this is Good news indeed . Pretty much what happened to me . Acts 13 .48 then read back to verse 46 . We see in 46 the opposite to verse 48 in responses to hearing the Gospel. In verse 46 the Jews do not choose/ appoint themselves " worthy of eternal life " . its just as Jesus said..Those that think they are not sick, will not think they need a physician. They don't see themselves needing this message and reject . In contrast ( 48) They do not reject the message but instead appoint themselves and accept the message and believe.
In my case I believed after a long complicated 7 months after hearing the Gospel . Not exactly irresistible grace .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Stop telling me not to believe the words on the page as if they aren't talking to me or that they are somehow not intended for me as a believer and I can't take comfort in them, Barry.
I'm just going to ignore you when you do that, OK?

The word of God is for everyone that believes...
From Abel onward.

It is not for a certain set of believers from a certain time frame, Barry.
I have no idea where you get this notion from, but to me it is not the Bible.

Yes there is context...
No, there's nothing that cannot be learned from.

And here we finally see the issue . This is exactly how every person who wakes up ,opens his bible ,closes his eyes , then drops his finger into his open bible and which ever verse his finger lands on ,thats the verse that is speaking to him. Thats his verse for that day .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Barry,
You really don't understand that what God says in one letter or book, carries over into other places as well, do you?
That what He says about a certain subject in the Old Testament, for example, is just as valid and dovetails with something that He said in the New...

Because it is ALL God's word, cover to cover.

Until you understand what I'm saying about context , we will be talking past each other . God bless .

 

[Sai]

Amen.
Now, why do they believe, Barry?

Don’t worry about it


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[Sai]

Acts 13 is a great example . These Gentiles hear the message and are wanting to hear it again .42¶And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
When they hear the Gospel they incline themselves, they say " yes this Jesus Died for us , we choose to believe the Gospel ,we understand this means eternal life ,this is Good news indeed . Pretty much what happened to me . Acts 13 .48 then read back to verse 46 . We see in 46 the opposite to verse 48 in responses to hearing the Gospel. In verse 46 the Jews do not choose/ appoint themselves " worthy of eternal life " . its just as Jesus said..Those that think they are not sick, will not think they need a physician. They don't see themselves needing this message and reject . In contrast ( 48) They do not reject the message but instead appoint themselves and accept the message and believe.
In my case I believed after a long complicated 7 months after hearing the Gospel . Not exactly irresistible grace .

The seed planted harvested 7 months later is still irresistible grace my son.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[1689Dave]

We all agree that man is inherently sinful and that he cannot redeem himself by any work.
We can all quote verses about the sinfulness of man.

I'm interested in the BEST verses you have that SAY [NOT JUST "IMPLY"] that a lost man cannot believe the gospel.

If you had to choose, say, the 3 clearest and most relevant verses to answer the question, what would they be?

Please, please, give the BEST and only 3.

Thanks.

Man cannot see-until he first be born again. (John 3:3)

Man cannot understand-until he first be given a new nature. (I Cor. 2:14)

Man cannot come-until he first be effectually called by the Holy Spirit. (John 6:44-45)
Is God's Part and Man's Part in Salvation

 

[Dave G]

And here we finally see the issue . This is exactly how every person who wakes up ,opens his bible ,closes his eyes , then drops his finger into his open bible and which ever verse his finger lands on ,thats the verse that is speaking to him. Thats his verse for that day .

Barry,
This is not the issue, and it's a bit more complicated than that.

Start a thread having to do with context, and we can go over some things if you like.
But this is George's thread and I don't believe that this is the place for it.


May God bless you greatly in your studies.

 

[Dave G]

One more comment to your replies to me, Barry, and I'm going to opt out of further ones...
Since this is George's thread and I'm not wanting to continue with "sub-threads".

Feel free to PM me and we can talk more about whatever you wish.

In my case I believed after a long complicated 7 months after hearing the Gospel . Not exactly irresistible grace .

The fact that you don't think that the preaching of the cross of Christ is foolishness, tells me that God, in His mercy and grace, "irresistibly" opened your eyes and ears to the truth of His words, Barry.
Similarly, the fact that you profess Christ as Saviour tells me a lot...

Instead of a "long 7 months" until you believed on Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, it could have been never.

That anyone believes on Christ and confesses Him publicly ( and what's more important, trusts in Him for deliverance in all their trials and tribulations ) only confirms the work of the Holy Spirit within someone...
As He is the one who is responsible for opening the hearts and minds to the truth of His word ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ), and giving them "ears to hear" ( Matthew 13:10-11, Luke 24:45 ).

 

[MB]

Something you Calvinist need to explain;
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

 

[Van]

We all agree that man is inherently sinful and that he cannot redeem himself by any work.
We can all quote verses about the sinfulness of man.

I'm interested in the BEST verses you have that SAY [NOT JUST "IMPLY"] that a lost man cannot believe the gospel.
If you had to choose, say, the 3 clearest and most relevant verses to answer the question, what would they be?
Please, please, give the BEST and only 3.
Thanks.

Calvinists read into many verses what the verses do not actually say.

For example Romans 3:11 is often cited, it says no one seeks God so Calvinism claims it says no one ever seeks God which if true would mean no one would believe the gospel.

1 Corinthians 2:14 is often cited, says natural men cannot understand "the things of the Spirit" so Calvinism claims it says natural men (unregenerates) cannot understand "all the things of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 4:3 says the gospel is hidden from those that are lost so Calvinism claims it says the gospel is hidden from all those who are lost.

There is absolutely no actual support anywhere in scripture for the TULI of Calvinism.

 

[Van]

OTOH,
Mark 8:17
And Jesus, aware of this, *said to them, “Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart?

Thus scripture acknowledges that some of the lost have "hardened hearts" and therefore cannot understand. For example, soil #1 of Matthew 13.

Also, for those with hardened hearts, the gospel is hidden. But this refers to a subset of the lost, not all the lost.

 

[Dave G]

Something you Calvinist need to explain;
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

The Bible has the answer for that, MB, not John Calvin:

" He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." ( Matthew 11:15 ).
" He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:47 ).

Do you see the significance in these declarations above?
How about in these statements below?

" And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; " ( Revelation 5:9 ).

" Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" ( Romans 9:24 ).

Salvation was and is sent to the Gentiles...
But that in no way negates God's purpose according to election:

" (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth " ( Romans 9:11 )


May God bless you greatly, sir.

 

[MB]

So far no Calvinist has been able to show three verses that say a lost man cannot believe Calvinist loose .

 

[utilyan]

We all agree that man is inherently sinful and that he cannot redeem himself by any work.
We can all quote verses about the sinfulness of man.

I'm interested in the BEST verses you have that SAY [NOT JUST "IMPLY"] that a lost man cannot believe the gospel.

If you had to choose, say, the 3 clearest and most relevant verses to answer the question, what would they be?

Please, please, give the BEST and only 3.

Thanks.

It is impossible to express "inability aspect" of Calvinism with SCRIPTURE ALONE.

They cannot build it.

They have to build the philosophy and indoctrinate a christian and then emphasize failures. IE. YOU ALWAYS STEAL = you can't give anything. You always eat = you can't drink.

Common sense and Calvinism never go together. You can literally ask if God commands a Calvinist to do something, it doesn't mean God wants it done. Calvinist believe GOD wants and desires people to sin. Calvinist believe God wants and desires all people to disobey him.