Repeating a bogus reference is the stock and trade of deflectors. I am sure there is no support anywhere in scripture for Total Spiritual Inability.
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What 3 verses say that a lost man cannot believe the gospel?
- Thread starter George Antonios
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Yep. Look back through just about any thread where you and I have debated this issue.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
selected, copied, & pasted from:
His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3
The sin and fall of Adam having brought him into a state of infidelity,
in which God has concluded him: and he does not think fit to give to every man that grace which can only cure him of his unbelief, and without which, and unless almighty power and grace go along with the means they have, they cannot believe;
whereby the decrees, predictions, and declarations of God are fulfilled in them, #Joh 12:37-40 yea, as Christ is said to be set, or appointed,
"for the fall of many in Israel", #Lu 2:34
so many are appointed to stumble at the Word, at him, the Stone of stumbling, and Rock of offence, being children of disobedience, and left as such;
when, to those who are a chosen generation, he is a precious cornerstone, and they believe in him, and are saved by him, #1Pe 2:7-9 hence we read of some, who, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved, to them are sent by God strong delusions, and they are given up to believe a lie, that they might be damned;
not that God infuses any delusion or deceit into them, but
because of their disbelief of,
and disrespect to him and his Word,
he suffers their corruptions to break forth and prevail, not giving restraining grace to them; so that they become a prey to them that lie in wait to deceive;
and being easy and credulous, they believe lies spoken in hypocrisy;
which issue in their damnation;
while others, beloved of the Lord, and chosen from the beginning to salvation, obtain the glory of Christ, #2Th 2:10-14.
But though all this is a most certain truth, and is contained in the decree we are speaking of, yet condemnation, or everlasting punishment, seems to be meant in the passage quoted; or, however, this is what some men are foreordained unto.
John 12:37-40 indicates the crowd thought Christ would remain forever, and therefore did not believe at that time that the Son of Man (Jesus) who will die "high and lifted up" is the Christ. They did not believe because they had been blinded during their lifetime. According to Calvinism, they were born spiritually blind, so once more the very passage cited to support bogus doctrine actually refutes it.
Next Luke 2:34 was cited with the claim it somehow supports total spiritual inability. But it supports the opposite, because of Christ's ministry first to the Jews, many in Israel will reject Christ and fall (such as those in the crowd of John 12:37) and many others in Israel will rise (be resurrected because of their belief in Christ).
Next we get 1 Peter 2:7-9. first addresses people who reject Christ who have already been condemned for unbelief, and then verse 9-10 addresses people who accepted Christ who were chosen on that basis as a people for God's own possession. So once again, the very passage cited actually supports Limited Spiritual Ability and demonstrates total spiritual inability is bogus.
Finally 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 addresses those who had already rejected Christ, and then after they rejected Christ, God sent a deluding influence so those who delighted in wickedness would be judged. Thus the fact some accept Christ (verse 13) demonstrates once again total spiritual inability is false using the very passages provided by Calvinists.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Jude 1:4. "There are certain men crept in unawares,
who were before of old ordained to this condemnation";
from: His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3
and who are described by the following characters,
"ungodly men, turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and, or even our Lord Jesus Christ";
which, when observed, is sufficient to clear this decree of God from the charge of cruelty and injustice: and this, by some, is called, positive reprobation.
The word krima, translated "condemnation", in the above quoted text, some render "judgment", and interpret it of judicial blindness and hardness of heart;
which appeared in the persons embracing and spreading false and pernicious doctrines spoken of; and this is, indeed, what they are foreordained, or appointed to, as a punishment of former sins; for this hardness, &c. presupposes former sins, and an obstinately continued course in them;
either against the light and law of nature, which they like not to walk according to, and therefore God gives them up, pursuant to his decree, to a reprobate mind, to do things not convenient, #Ro 1:24,28
or against divine revelation, precepts, counsels, and admonitions, like Israel of old, hearkening not to the voice of the Lord, in his word, nor paying any regard to his instructions; and therefore he gives them up, as he determined to do, to their own hearts' lusts, and to walk in their own counsels, #Ps 81:11,12
and this is the sense of the word in #Joh 9:39.
God hardens some mens' hearts, as he did Pharaoh's, and he wills to harden them, or he hardens them according to his decreeing will;
"Whom he will he hardeneth", #Ro 9:18
this he does not by any positive act, by infusing hardness and blindness into the hearts of men;
which is contrary to his purity and holiness, and would make him the author of sin;
but by leaving men to their natural blindness and hardness of heart; for the understanding is naturally darkened;
and there is a natural blindness, hardness, and callousness of heart, through the corruption of nature, and which is increased by habits of sinning;
men are in darkness, and choose to walk in it; and therefore God, as he decreed, gives them up to their own wills and desires, and to Satan, the god of the world, they choose to follow, and to be led captive by, who blinds their minds yet more and more, lest light should break in unto them, #Eph 4:18 #Ps 82:5 2Co 4:4
and also God may be said to harden and blind, by denying them that grace which can only cure them of their hardness and blindness, and which he, of his free favor, gives to his chosen ones, #Eze 36:26,27 but is not obliged to give it to any; and because he gives it not, he is said to hide, as he determined to hide, the things of his grace from the wise and prudent, even because it so seemed good in his sight, #Mt 11:25,26.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Wow, and I saw what you said about, "29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
"This is the Work of God, that you believe..."
The Enablement Comes from God in The New Birth, to believe.
The Enablement of The Holy Spirit Works below consciousness and then brings to the mind of the lost that they are sinners in The Hands of an Angry God.
God Discribes "sin", without calling Himself, "John Calvin".
"without strength"
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Thought I'd be back over the weekend and it's already closing time 
Guess I'll have to simply wait for another thread on this, where we could continue talking past each other with no common ground to meet over since we so obviously are not of One Spirit worshiping the One Lord. Why aren't we all yet following those few who've already taken to debating how the other should go to hell instead of discussing Scriptures. Really, what other alternative have we left if we've decided anyway not to listen to each other and not to strive to reconcile paradoxical yet consistent truths held in tension. Ah well, while i'm at it, I should probably pick up this thing they call sarcasm too...
Guess I'll have to simply wait for another thread on this, where we could continue talking past each other with no common ground to meet over since we so obviously are not of One Spirit worshiping the One Lord. Why aren't we all yet following those few who've already taken to debating how the other should go to hell instead of discussing Scriptures. Really, what other alternative have we left if we've decided anyway not to listen to each other and not to strive to reconcile paradoxical yet consistent truths held in tension. Ah well, while i'm at it, I should probably pick up this thing they call sarcasm too...
This thread is closed.
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