What about the doctrine of Original Sin?

[MB]

God can and does as he pleases... I don’t argue with God

There is a huge difference between curiosity and argument
MB

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is a huge difference between curiosity and argument
MB

And how does this concern me?

 

[JonC]

And how does this concern me?

Are you asking out of curiosity or are you being argumentative?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Are you asking out of curiosity or are you being argumentative?

You should know the answer to that right now.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What I’m really thinking, when we going to get rid of this rotten political form and get down to brass tacks and studying Christ.

 

[Iconoclast]

My two basic presuppositions.
God is infinite good.
Man was not made to be infinitely good.

The knowledge of good and evil is God's. And man did not have that knowledge until they disobyed. Genesis 3:1-22.

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." -- Deuteronomy 24:16.

all sinned.....at one point in time. We all sinned and died in Adam

 

[37818]

all sinned.....at one point in time. We all sinned and died in Adam

1 Corinthians 15:22, ". . . For as in Adam all die, . . ."

 

[Iconoclast]

1 Corinthians 15:22, ". . . For as in Adam all die, . . ."

I was thinking of what is actually taught in Roman's 3:23......all sinned at one point in time....the fall.

 

[robustheologian]

I was thinking of what is actually taught in Roman's 3:23......all sinned at one point in time....the fall.

Bingo...and that, folks, is the bedrock of original sin.

 

[37818]

I was thinking of what is actually taught in Roman's 3:23......all sinned at one point in time....the fall.

That, as I understand, is contrary to Deuteronomy 24:16, "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

 

[Michael Hollner]

Another touchy subject in the debate between Calvinism and Arminianism is Original Sin. It seems to some Christians a very 'gloomy' term. Some even go as far as to reject the classical definition of original sin citing that it isn't found in Scripture (I've always thought that to be a poor argument since a lot of beliefs central to Christianity aren't found in scripture).

While a lot of Christians do accept a doctrine of original sin, it appears historic Calvinism has the strongest and most biblical belief of it. So much so that the concept is bedrock to Reformed theology for those who have followed it to its logical conclusion.

What I often wonder is:
(1) What doctrine of original sin do Christians who don't identify with Calvinism hold?
And, (2) in the case of Calvinism and original sin, is it even possible (meaning logically consistent) to hold to the historic definition of original sin without ascribing to the theology referred to as Calvinism?

I think Romans 3:23 says it well, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Only through Christ and His blood can we be justified freely by His grace (Romans 3:24-25) KJV.

Bro. Mike
Write the Vision Ministry
www.kjvdebate.com

 

[Iconoclast]

That, as I understand, is contrary to Deuteronomy 24:16, "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

It is not a contradiction at all. We each have our own sins to give account of.

 

[utilyan]

What I’m really thinking, when we going to get rid of this rotten political form and get down to brass tacks and studying Christ.

When you change your profile pic?

There is a group of folks, not saying who, who think God would have a child raped for his glory.

There is a group of folks, not saying who, who literally hear GOD's COMMAND and don't have a clue of what he Want and Desires.

There is a group of folks, not saying who, who love to bully folks and using God to do it is a cherry on top, They get to mask it all under the guise of tough love.

There is a raged pessimistic, not saying who, who grew up believing everyone was evil, bad and worthless and finally got the validation he wanted to hear.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

When you change your profile pic?

There is a group of folks, not saying who, who think God would have a child raped for his glory.

There is a group of folks, not saying who, who literally hear GOD's COMMAND and don't have a clue of what he Want and Desires.

There is a group of folks, not saying who, who love to bully folks and using God to do it is a cherry on top, They get to mask it all under the guise of tough love.

There is a raged pessimistic, not saying who, who grew up believing everyone was evil, bad and worthless and finally got the validation he wanted to hear.

Look, your church feeds the poor. Mine make disciples. Both believe Christ is sovereign. So what are banging on about... get out there and feed them.... screw the stuff that separates us.

 

[Humble Disciple]

By choosing to save some and not others (Romans 9:11-23), God is not a puppet master, forcing those outside the elect to commit sins contrary to their own wills and desires. Instead, God leaves them to their natural fallen condition:

From a theological viewpoint, the definition of the will is viewed in light of the revealed, biblical truths of original sin and the spiritual depravity of man. These two truths render the definition of “will” in regard to fallen man as “captive to sin” (Acts 8:23), a “slave of sin” (John 8:34; Romans 6:16-17) and subject only to its “master,” which is sin (Romans 6:14). As such, although the will of man is “free” to do as it wishes, it wishes to act according to its nature, and since the nature of the fallen will is sinful, every intent of the thoughts of the fallen man’s heart is “only evil continually” (Genesis 6:5, cf. Genesis 8:21). He, being naturally rebellious to that which is spiritually good (Romans 8:7-8; 1 Corinthians 2:14), “is bent only on rebellion” (Proverbs 17:11). Essentially, man is “free” to do as he wishes, and he does just that, but man simply cannot do that which is contrary to his nature. What man “wills” to do is subject to and determined solely by his nature.
What is compatibilism? | GotQuestions.org

By the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, God’s elect are enabled to turn from sin and receive faith in Jesus Christ:

For the Calvinist, Ephesians 2:1 is key: “And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.” Without Christ, people are spiritually dead. Dead people cannot do anything. A spiritually dead person can no more do anything to remedy that situation than a physically dead person can climb out of a grave. Therefore, God must regenerate people, making them spiritually alive, before they can trust in Christ as Savior (John 3:8)...
So, does regeneration come before faith? John 6:44 says, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.” Second Corinthians 4:4 declares, “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” It is undeniable that God must do something to enable people to believe. At the very least, God must draw people to Christ and open their eyes.
Does regeneration come before faith? | GotQuestions.org

This doesn’t mean that Christians will never sin, but those who show no evidence of regeneration whatsoever have reason to doubt that their conversion was genuine:

2 Peter 1
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.