What are churches for?

[Oldtimer]

I never could understand why Baptists and evangelicals thought it was okay for everyone to wear robes except the pastor.

I think every pastor should buy a $50 white alb and preach in it every week; that way, he/she could wear jeans and tennis shoes and it wouldn't matter. I've got a simple white alb and beautiful red stole with a dove emblem. No need to spend $1000 on suits. I've also got a plastic clergy collar that costs about $1; don't have to worry with ties or the cost of them.

Baptists ?? Everyone ??

Perhaps in the big city and in mega churches, but not in ours. The only time I ever see a robe is when our pastor and a new member are in white ones for baptism. Or when our pastor is wearing a black one for a wedding ceremony.

Personal opinion coming up. Fair warning.

There's something wrong when a pastor feels he must wear a $1,000 suit. Is it "must wear" for "wants to wear" to project his image of a successful pastor? Especially, in these days when many hard working God-fearing Christians can't afford K-Mart blue light specials.

If our church ever brings up to vote buying choir robes, if two NO votes could count, I'd be standing up with both arms raised. There are just too many other ways those funds could be used to better serve our Lord, IMO.

I can't imagine our Saviour wearing finer garments than the fishermen He called. Instead of regal attire with gold cords (or $1,000 suits) the only way I can picture Him is being dressed as a humble man during His ministry. A carpenter who did not try to bring recognition to Himself based on grandure of the coverings on His body.

One more point, before closing this opinion. If a pastor choses to wear a robe during worship services, it does matter what he's wearing underneath. That is unless he waits until all of his flock have left before he puts the robe back on its hanger. Taking off his robe is similar to taking off a mask to reveal the true face underneath after worship services. (Whether anyone sees it or not.)

I'll leave it to others to decide. If a pastor, wearing a robe, preaches about not conforming to the world, what does he portray, when removal of the robe reveals shorts and a tee blazoned with a football team logo?

 

[Oldtimer]

Gina...as promised earlier this evening, I would like to return to the OP and add to SaturNeptune's excellent comment only this....

One of the greatest purposes I see for the local assembly is the mutual edification of the saints as we not only hold each other accountable in fellowship, (or we should) but that we also build each other up in the faith as we manifest the fruit of the Spirit as listed in Gal.5 as we daily are conformed by the Holy Spirit into the image of our dear Saviour.

We need to get as proficient at the art of fellowship as possible. We are going to be spending eternity with each other. I pray the transition from HERE to THERE will hopefully not be more drastic than necessary. Our dear Lord Jesus Christ knows that fellowship between his children is VITAL not only for our relationship with Him but with each other as well. We should WANT to be around like minded believers as often as possible. There is definitely something very wrong if we don't desire that!

Bro.Greg

Well said, Brother.

I'm sad to say it took me far too long to understand the truth of your words in my life. I walked alone too many years without the fellowship of believers. Lost opportunities that can never be regained in this quickly fleeing lifetime. Prayer meeting, last night is a good example. How many prayers for others (and myself) have gone unprayed because I failed to seek fellowship in His church?

 

[dcorbett]

I'm sad to say it took me far too long to understand the truth of your words in my life. I walked alone too many years without the fellowship of believers. Lost opportunities that can never be regained in this quickly fleeing lifetime. Prayer meeting, last night is a good example. How many prayers for others (and myself) have gone unprayed because I failed to seek fellowship in His church?

That is such a tender statement. I was touched by the sincerity and
honesty.

I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the House of the Lord!!

 

[12strings]

I never could understand why Baptists and evangelicals thought it was okay for everyone to wear robes except the pastor.

I think every pastor should buy a $50 white alb and preach in it every week; that way, he/she could wear jeans and tennis shoes and it wouldn't matter. I've got a simple white alb and beautiful red stole with a dove emblem. No need to spend $1000 on suits. I've also got a plastic clergy collar that costs about $1; don't have to worry with ties or the cost of them.

Sorry, can you explain what you mean? I have never seen baptists wear robes, pastor or not...except for choirs.

I have 5 suits....I've only bought one of them, for about $200, 10 years ago...Don't wear any of them for church...just khakis and a collared shirt. (I lead music at my church...I did wear a suit when I preached a few months ago...but I might not next time).

 

[Bronconagurski]

Well said, Brother.

I'm sad to say it took me far too long to understand the truth of your words in my life. I walked alone too many years without the fellowship of believers. Lost opportunities that can never be regained in this quickly fleeing lifetime. Prayer meeting, last night is a good example. How many prayers for others (and myself) have gone unprayed because I failed to seek fellowship in His church?

Those words hit home to me, brother. I don't want to ask too personal a question, so please forgive me if I do, but did you walk alone because you just didn't go to church very much, or because you went to church, but didn't seek fellowship? I have worked 3rd shift since my oldest son was a couple of months old. I could not bear to see him in daycare. I kept him during the day, as I did my youngest son. This led to homeschooling. I work 3rd during the night, and homeschool during the day. My shifts for the last 6 years have included every weekend, from 5 pm to 5 am. This meant that I only got to go to church on Sunday Morning after working 12 hours. During those years I had no close friend in the church. I was working when they were off, and vice versa. I love my family and would do anything for them, but sometimes you need a friend, not just acquaintances. I read somewhere that men in church are sometimes the lonliest people in the church. I can relate to that. I know the scriptures say that if you want friends, you have to be friendly. When you are an introvert like I am, and have limited time, that is sometimes hard to do. Just having a man for a friend to hold me accountable, and I hold him accountable would be priceless to me. Someone that can relate to your struggles as a man, and not be judgemental, but just help you keep things in perspective. If you do not want to answer my question, I understand.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Baptists ?? Everyone ??

Perhaps in the big city and in mega churches, but not in ours. The only time I ever see a robe is when our pastor and a new member are in white ones for baptism. Or when our pastor is wearing a black one for a wedding ceremony.

Personal opinion coming up. Fair warning.

There's something wrong when a pastor feels he must wear a $1,000 suit. Is it "must wear" for "wants to wear" to project his image of a successful pastor? Especially, in these days when many hard working God-fearing Christians can't afford K-Mart blue light specials.

If our church ever brings up to vote buying choir robes, if two NO votes could count, I'd be standing up with both arms raised. There are just too many other ways those funds could be used to better serve our Lord, IMO.

I can't imagine our Saviour wearing finer garments than the fishermen He called. Instead of regal attire with gold cords (or $1,000 suits) the only way I can picture Him is being dressed as a humble man during His ministry. A carpenter who did not try to bring recognition to Himself based on grandure of the coverings on His body.

One more point, before closing this opinion. If a pastor choses to wear a robe during worship services, it does matter what he's wearing underneath. That is unless he waits until all of his flock have left before he puts the robe back on its hanger. Taking off his robe is similar to taking off a mask to reveal the true face underneath after worship services. (Whether anyone sees it or not.)

I'll leave it to others to decide. If a pastor, wearing a robe, preaches about not conforming to the world, what does he portray, when removal of the robe reveals shorts and a tee blazoned with a football team logo?

I didn't mean one suit costing $1000, but several; as EWF said, if you could get a Sears suit for $200, then you could get five for $1000. But I could get 20 white albs for that! Oh, and btw, a simple white alb is a garment that was worn as an everyday garment by common people of Jesus's day, so it is likely that Jesus wore one -- the commoner's street clothes of the day.

And I do realize that just as with expensive suits, you can go overboard and get expensive vestments and parade around like a peacock.

It's all about where your heart is. I see many TV preachers who don't wear robes that nevertheless are really decked out!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Now you have me concerned that I will really hate the place (WELS Lutheran) because of the differences.

1. I seriously dont like church done like Catholics do church (Liturgical, Robes, forced traditions, ringing of bells etc) I walked....no I ran away from that crap after 32 years of being a RC & never looked back. To see it presented & that I would have to endure it for fellowship is a bitter pill to swallow. Is that what God really wants? I wonder.

2. Yea what do I do when they start in with their biblical interpretations that are so different from mine. From my prospective I would probably walk out when Atonement & sacraments get discussed. I am a Radical Reformed Baptist who loves....I MEAN LOVES "Definite Atonement" & who I am in beliefs. The controversy & the casum may really be too great for me ... really, its about how the gospel doctrines hold together & wouldn't I be contradicting myself for what.....so called "fellowship"!!!!

3. This would preclude me from joining this church ..... & how would my family view me....perhaps a sellout to my faith convictions? Yea probably!

Really, Im having some serious 2nd thoughts.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Sorry, can you explain what you mean? I have never seen baptists wear robes, pastor or not...except for choirs.

I have 5 suits....I've only bought one of them, for about $200, 10 years ago...Don't wear any of them for church...just khakis and a collared shirt. (I lead music at my church...I did wear a suit when I preached a few months ago...but I might not next time).

That's what I meant -- choir robes. So, why are those okay, but not other kinds?

BTW, I have seen a Baptist liturgical church where the pastor wore a robe. But there are none of those churches near me, out here in the boonies.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Now you have me concerned that I will really hate the place (WELS Lutheran) because of the differences.

1. I seriously dont like church done like Catholics do church (Liturgical, Robes, forced traditions, ringing of bells etc) I walked....no I ran away from that crap after 32 years of being a RC & never looked back. To see it presented & that I would have to endure it for fellowship is a bitter pill to swallow. Is that what God really wants? I wonder.

2. Yea what do I do when they start in with their biblical interpretations that are so different from mine. From my prospective I would probably walk out when Atonement & sacraments get discussed. I am a Radical Reformed Baptist who loves....I MEAN LOVES "Definite Atonement" & who I am in beliefs. The controversy & the casum may really be too great for me ... really, its about how the gospel doctrines hold together & wouldn't I be contradicting myself for what.....so called "fellowship"!!!!

3. This would preclude me from joining this church ..... & how would my family view me....perhaps a sellout to my faith convictions? Yea probably!

Really, Im having some serious 2nd thoughts.

Are there no churches anywhere near you that you could feel at home in? If not, how far away is the closest one? If there are no Baptist churches like that, what about a conservative Presbyterian church?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I didn't mean one suit costing $1000, but several; as EWF said, if you could get a Sears suit for $200, then you could get five for $1000. But I could get 20 white albs for that! Oh, and btw, a simple white alb is a garment that was worn as an everyday garment by common people of Jesus's day, so it is likely that Jesus wore one -- the commoner's street clothes of the day.

And I do realize that just as with expensive suits, you can go overboard and get expensive vestments and parade around like a peacock.

It's all about where your heart is. I see many TV preachers who don't wear robes that nevertheless are really decked out!

But seriously though, whats wrong with the "Business Casual" look? I mean Polo Shirt & Dockers. Its clean, I feel appropriate & easy. If you want to dress it up, buy a sports coat. We are in the new normal right? Id hate to have to relegate a pastor to the traditional suit & tie (uniform)...especially if he is pastoring in the hot humid south. Personally, those days are gone & good riddance.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

But seriously though, whats wrong with the "Business Casual" look? I mean Polo Shirt & Dockers. Its clean, I feel appropriate & easy. If you want to dress it up, buy a sports coat. We are in the new normal right? Id hate to have to relegate a pastor to the traditional suit & tie (uniform)...especially if he is pastoring in the hot humid south. Personally, those days are gone & good riddance.

We can wear anything down here now in the summer since the invention of air conditioning. :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Are there no churches anywhere near you that you could feel at home in? If not, how far away is the closest one? If there are no Baptist churches like that, what about a conservative Presbyterian church?

Nope.....remember, I live in the North East. There are many PCUSA Churches & one OPC but I hate the head elder. The guy & most of the congregation are Hyper-Cals & I dont swing that way. Again Im a Baptist & Id feel uncomfortable with their (PC-HYPER) crap too.

My comfort zone is Reformed Baptist but I have to travel far for that & I dont want to do that. So I contacted their HQ in Harrisburg & asked to speak to the guy in charge about planting a church. Nope, go to the ones away from your community & take the hour long drive.....thats what I was told to do.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We can wear anything down here now in the summer since the invention of air conditioning. :laugh:

Still got to go outside right? HVAC must be a lucrative career down there. :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We can wear anything down here now in the summer since the invention of air conditioning. :laugh:

My wifes cousin had a infant baptism @ a upscale church in August in Ho-Ho-Kus NJ (a real upscale town near NYC) in a RC Church. I go business casual & they are all wearing shorts. The grandmother even told me I was over dressed. Imagine that....shorts! Now I know Ive lived too long.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Michael Wrenn]

My wifes cousin had a infant baptism @ a upscale church in August in Ho-Ho-Kus NJ (a real upscale town near NYC) in a RC Church. I go business casual & they are all wearing shorts. The grandmother even told me I was over dressed. Imagine that....shorts! Now I know Ive lived too long.:smilewinkgrin:

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Nope.....remember, I live in the North East. There are many PCUSA Churches & one OPC but I hate the head elder. The guy & most of the congregation are Hyper-Cals & I dont swing that way. Again Im a Baptist & Id feel uncomfortable with their (PC-HYPER) crap too.

My comfort zone is Reformed Baptist but I have to travel far for that & I dont want to do that. So I contacted their HQ in Harrisburg & asked to speak to the guy in charge about planting a church. Nope, go to the ones away from your community & take the hour long drive.....thats what I was told to do.

What about a conservative evangelical Anglican church -- maybe continuing Anglican or some offshoot? Some conservative evangelical Anglicans are Reformed in theology. Any of those churches near you?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What about a conservative evangelical Anglican church -- maybe continuing Anglican or some offshoot? Some conservative evangelical Anglicans are Reformed in theology. Any of those churches near you?

Michael, I appreciate your suggestions but this has been a 2 year search which has turned up a plethora of liberal & apostate churches, a Hyper Cal enclave of nut cases, one closed SBC & a few baptist churches (Non-Calvinist) independents that want me to walk away from my Reformed Stance. The DOG Anglicans are even further away plus they want me to convert to the Book of Common Prayer which Im not to hot on.

Now you will find at least one Roman Catholic church in every town & sometimes even 2 or 3 depending on the economic background of the community but you would be hard pressed to find even one baptist church of any stripe in entire counties & if you do they will probably emulate liberal & apostate houses of worship & most have changed the names from Baptist to something else to both hide their faith & to draw in Roman Catholics. Truthfully, thats what most of these churches are today....gathering places for ex-catholics. I was at a church meeting of probably the last remaining Congregational Church in New Jersey. They brought in a Baptist Pastor who lectured us on the positive attributes of changing our name....he stated that all the Baptist Churches in the surrounding area were doing it.....to....wait for it....... to attract Roman Catholics & that the Baptist name frightened them off .....this was at least 15 years ago. Like you may have guessed, most of these churches capitulated.

Bottom line, the Landscape in Northern NJ for churches that hold to a orthodox theology is almost non existent. Pretty sad!!!

 

[mont974x4]

I own 3 suits. 1 was a gift from my Dad. The other 2 were bought, on sale, by my bride for under $150 each. I don't wear them often but they are good to have for when I officiate funerals and weddings, or preaching on special occasions.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I own 3 suits. 1 was a gift from my Dad. The other 2 were bought, on sale, by my bride for under $150 each. I don't wear them often but they are good to have for when I officiate funerals and weddings, or preaching on special occasions.

As my late mom used to say, just make sure you have clean underwear & shine your shoes often! LOL

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

And The Same To You...

Well said, Brother.

I'm sad to say it took me far too long to understand the truth of your words in my life. I walked alone too many years without the fellowship of believers. Lost opportunities that can never be regained in this quickly fleeing lifetime. Prayer meeting, last night is a good example. How many prayers for others (and myself) have gone unprayed because I failed to seek fellowship in His church?

OT..God bless you for your kind and honest comment. I too have done the same and feel as if I wasted a lot of years not realizing the value and need for good fellowship. What comprises good and fruitful fellowship may be a good topic for another thread. I am convinced though that what passes for "fellowship" in many churches these days barely resembles what those believers in the 1st Century did as they went house to house and broke bread together. I long for true biblical fellowship...both in and out of church. That is part of the value of this forum as we engage in the exchange of ideas, beliefs and concerns.:thumbsup:

Bro.Greg