What are the Main differences between reformed Baptists and other Baptists then?

[Katarina Von Bora]

Trust me Van, there are many non reformed Calvinist Baptist who also disagree with your theology!

Y1, Can you rephrase your sentence for me, please.

There are reformed Baptist and reformed Presbyterians, Reformed church in America and one more I may be missing.

But they are ALL reformed. Calvinists come from all of those churches, but none of them follow all the teachings of Calvin'
s theology in every area. Calvinism is really just a nick.

God Bless.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Did God intend the death of Jesus to provide salvation for all sinners then?

The best place to find this answer is in John 17. It's crystal clear there.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Indeed. Good move.

BTW, I did get your email, but it failed some security areas. Both Kapersky and Webroot. It might have been a fluke, but far worse, I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you.

God Bless

I sent you another PM. Did you get it?

 

[SovereignGrace]

John 15:16: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

John 1:12,13: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Acts 13:48: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

Romans 9:15-16: "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

Romans 9:22-24: "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

Ephesians 1:4-5: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

Ephesians 1:11: "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"

Philippians 1:29: "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"

1 Thessalonians 1:4-5: "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake."

2 Thessalonians 2:13: "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

2 Timothy 1:9: "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"

Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God

John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:44 - 4 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Now, show us a single verse that demonstrates that people have free will unto salvation.

Hmmmph!! I can't find any.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

2) Your view (Reformed Theology if you deny it) is that Christ propitiated all the elect when He died on the cross. That bogus view is found nowhere in scripture.

I gave you the opportunity to revise this statement, but you didn't take it, so I presume you must be happy with it.
Why do the elect (or any other human beings) need to be propitiated by Christ? It is God who must be propitiated. Clearly you do not understand what propitiation actually means otherwise you wouldn't write this stuff. Nor clearly do you have the faintest idea what Reformed Theology is.

Now stop messing up the threads with your nonsense and embarrassing yourself. Go and do a course or something so that you will know what you're talking about.

 

[Rippon]

And Van will reply in his usual manner:

Did I say I knew what I was talking about? Nope.
Did I say I had the faintest idea what Reformed Theology is? Nope.
You're just addressing me and not the topic.
Your post is just another tain't so.
What I have said cannot be unsaid. It stands unrefuted from the so-called Reformed crowd.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And Van will reply in his usual manner:

Did I say I knew what I was talking about? Nope.
Did I say I had the faintest idea what Reformed Theology is? Nope.
You're just addressing me and not the topic.
Your post is just another tain't so.
What I have said cannot be unsaid. It stands unrefuted from the so-called Reformed crowd.

You left out twaddle...

 

[Van]

Hi Katarina Not to put too fine a point on it, but not one of the verses you posted shows that the lost do not have the limited spiritual ability to understand and respond to the milk of the gospel. When God chooses credits our faith in Christ, as worthless as it may be, as righteousness, and sets up apart in Christ, we are saved forever. Pick one or two of your listed verses, and tell me how you understand them to say the lost cannot respond to the milk of the gospel.

Now, show us a single verse that demonstrates that people have free will unto salvation.

What does "free will unto salvation" mean? That sinners save themselves? God alone saves us, please address my view, and not one of your manufacture.

Reformed Theology says the lost cannot understand and respond to the gospel. Matthew 13 teaches some of the lost have hardened themselves such that they cannot understand the gospel. But they lost the ability, rather than the bogus Reformed view they were conceived without it. So some (the first soil) cannot understand and respond to the gospel, but the other three soils can.

Next, Reformed Theology says God individually chose each and every person to be saved before creation. Therefore when Christ died, He died for those previously chosen, and only those previously chosen. These views are also bogus. God chooses individuals for salvation during their lifetime, after they have lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10) through faith in the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13). That being the case, then Christ died as a ransom for all and became the propitiation or means of salvation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

 

[Van]

I gave you the opportunity to revise this statement, but you didn't take it, so I presume you must be happy with it.

Yes, that Reformed Theology view is bogus.
Did I say Christ is the means of salvation from God's wrath? Yes.
Martin you have denied the evidence provided, and then you have disparaged me.

I provided 5 quotes that support the truth that propitiation is the means of salvation from God's wrath.

 

[Yeshua1]

Note the inability (or pretense) to represent the prior post. Here is the same answer yet again. Jesus is the means of salvation for the whole world, but only those transferred into Christ are saved

Now did Yeshua1 present any difference? Nope. So yet more deflection and off topic diversions.

Who is doing the transferring though? us or God? And God Will is the very basis for our election unto salvation, and not our own, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Hi Katarina Not to put too fine a point on it, but not one of the verses you posted shows that the lost do not have the limited spiritual ability to understand and respond to the milk of the gospel. When God chooses credits our faith in Christ, as worthless as it may be, as righteousness, and sets up apart in Christ, we are saved forever. Pick one or two of your listed verses, and tell me how you understand them to say the lost cannot respond to the milk of the gospel.


What does "free will unto salvation" mean? That sinners save themselves? God alone saves us, please address my view, and not one of your manufacture.

Reformed Theology says the lost cannot understand and respond to the gospel. Matthew 13 teaches some of the lost have hardened themselves such that they cannot understand the gospel. But they lost the ability, rather than the bogus Reformed view they were conceived without it. So some (the first soil) cannot understand and respond to the gospel, but the other three soils can.

Next, Reformed Theology says God individually chose each and every person to be saved before creation. Therefore when Christ died, He died for those previously chosen, and only those previously chosen. These views are also bogus. God chooses individuals for salvation during their lifetime, after they have lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10) through faith in the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13). That being the case, then Christ died as a ransom for all and became the propitiation or means of salvation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

Even our saving faith is a gift from God unto His elect in Christ, and our election PRECEDES our salvation, not CAUSED by it!

And paul stated clearly that ONLY the saved can receive the things of scripture in a saving sense, as the Holy Spirit has to be dwelling in them in order to have them receive and understand it!

 

[Yeshua1]

Y1, Can you rephrase your sentence for me, please.

There are reformed Baptist and reformed Presbyterians, Reformed church in America and one more I may be missing.

But they are ALL reformed. Calvinists come from all of those churches, but none of them follow all the teachings of Calvin'
s theology in every area. Calvinism is really just a nick.

God Bless.

Thre are reformed Baptists, who would hold to normally the 1689 Confession of Faith, and there would be calvinists Baptists, who are non Confessing. My point was that MANY of the calvinist Baptists would deny salvation as Van states it, as they would also hold to reformed view on it!

 

[Yeshua1]

I gave you the opportunity to revise this statement, but you didn't take it, so I presume you must be happy with it.
Why do the elect (or any other human beings) need to be propitiated by Christ? It is God who must be propitiated. Clearly you do not understand what propitiation actually means otherwise you wouldn't write this stuff. Nor clearly do you have the faintest idea what Reformed Theology is.

Now stop messing up the threads with your nonsense and embarrassing yourself. Go and do a course or something so that you will know what you're talking about.

Please remember though that per Van, you do not understand what reformed theology is....

 

[Van]

Even our saving faith is a gift from God unto His elect in Christ, and our election PRECEDES our salvation, not CAUSED by it!
And Paul stated clearly that ONLY the saved can receive the things of scripture in a saving sense, as the Holy Spirit has to be dwelling in them in order to have them receive and understand it!

More blatant falsehoods, posted in defiance of truth.
God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5; Romans 4:23-24.
Salvation is the gift of God, not faith, for we are saved by grace through faith. Thus faith precedes salvation.
Paul never says only the saved can receive the things of scripture in a saving sense. Instead Paul teaches we have limited spiritual ability, able to receive the milk of the gospel as men of flesh, but not able to receive spiritual meat unless indwelt. See 1 Corinthians 2:14 - 3:3.

Who is doing the transferring though? us or God? And God Will is the very basis for our election unto salvation, and not our own, correct?

Does anyone believe Yeshua1 is so uninformed as to deny Colossians 1:12-13.
Reformed Theology falsely says the lost cannot will to be saved, but Paul (Romans 9:16) says fallen men do will to be saved, but salvation depends on God's mercy.

 

[Rippon]

Paul teaches we have limited spiritual ability, able to receive the milk of the gospel as men of flesh, but not able to receive spiritual meat unless indwelt. See 1 Corinthians 2:14

Nope.
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness,
and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." (NIV)

Can you understand that the unsaved (unbelievers, those without the Holy Spirit) have no spiritual ability --because they DO NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Reformed Theology falsely says the lost cannot will to be saved, but Paul (Romans 9:16) says fallen men do will to be saved, but salvation depends on God's mercy.

Huh?

"Thus it does not depend on human will or effort, but on God's mercy." (REB)

Van, the very verses you cite to back up your slant on things refute in clear words your position.

Don't try to up-end the Scriptures. Rather, submit to the Word of God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Van, the very verses you cite to back up your slant on things refute in clear words your position.

That's Vanology 101 at its finest. He says one thing and then contradicts it before adding the period at the end of the sentence.

Don't try to up-end the Scriptures. Rather, submit to the Word of God.

Sadly he does much of the former and can't do the latter.

 

[Van]

Pay no attention to the false theology of those who deny Paul spoke to new Christians as "men of flesh" using milk. It is right there for all to read. The things in 1 Cor. 2:14 are spiritual meat, not spiritual milk.

 

[Rippon]

The things in 1 Cor. 2:14 are spiritual meat, not spiritual milk.

People in the position of those described in 1 Cor. 2:14 do not enjoy anything spiritual --milk or meat. They don't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They have no understanding. Spiritual matters are foolishness to them.

Were you ever in that state Van? Or do insist you always had some spiritual ability?

Was it God's mercy that saved you or your will?

 

[Van]

More deflection and denial, more change the subject absurd questions.

Did any of the Reformed Baptists admit to their bogus doctrines,
1) Uncontional Election whereas 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we were chosen through faith in the truth.
2) Total Spiritual Inability whereas 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 says men of flesh can understand milk.
3) Limited Atonement whereas 1 Timothy 2:6 says Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
To the relief of some, this thread will close sometime after 2:30 PM Pacific.