The information I referenced did not mention 200 BPM.
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What are your thoughts on music?
- Thread starter FrigidDev
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It is good to read another musician the understands music theory.
Having my first degree in music education, I have to say, that theory two would have been a LOT easier had I been much stronger on the keyboard.
Your analysis of the music is spot on, and the principles that you pointed out can be used by anyone who has discernment to bring awareness of a few of the elemental demands music places upon the heart and mind - no matter the genre.
FrigidDev
Member
Carol of the Bells is legit one of my favorite all-time songs. No wonder I like metal music that leaves you hanging. I quite enjoy it, I'm sorry. I disagree that leaving you hanging is harmful.
I agree with the drums thing...that's a mark of a bad song, when it all mushes together and loses meaning. However, many black metal bands utilize that style with great effectiveness that I enjoy.
Also..that song(quintessence), is a metal song. I don't feel angry when listening to it...at all. I enjoy it, but I don't feel angry. I do however feel angry, when I listen to lyrics that talk about sin and the depravity of man. And that's a different story.
You must not be aware of how much your feelings and emotions are in control.
The passions of the flesh are to be put to death, daily, and this is not possible unless a believer matures in Christ.
Sin that believers are to be "angry about" is to be their own sin, not that of others.
Depravity of man is that which all men reside who are without Christ - nothing to be angry about in that, either.
FrigidDev
Member
Sorry,
But I'm angry about the terrorist attack in Belgium. That's not my sin, it's someone else's. But it makes me mad.
And for that I am not sorry.
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
How do you understand Ephesians 4:26 "Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath?"
It seems to me to be saying that some anger is justified and does not necessarily lead to sins of the flesh.
FrididDev, you came and asked a question which implies you were open to hearing other people answer. When the answer was not what you appear to seek--confirmation that death metal is ok if the lyrics are Christian--you began to argue. You won't accept answers from opinion (fair enough) or science or Scripture. You want to refute everything except the answer you seek.
Which makes me suspect a few things. Let the Holy Spirit convict you if I press a button. I think someone is telling you the music isn't good, and you came here looking for help convincing them it is good. Or you came here just to try and convert us to accept it. Or you are addicted to it.
Let me challenge you with something: cold turkey off ALL MUSIC for 90 days. Let your parents and pastor know what you are doing, so if possible you come in late to church for a short time so as to miss the music. I believe you will go through an unpleasant time of withdrawal and be a real pill to be around. You will be angry, depressed, achy, and just generally find life rotten. For a few days to a week or so, that is. Then comes the detox phase where you will slowly feel better, find you think more clearly, eat and sleep better, and find yourself several years more mature.
If you can get through this, then and only then can you study and learn how music affects us physically, mentally, and emotionally. You can then with a clear mind tell scripturally which music meets basic Bible instructions and which does not.
If your reaction to this challenge is "I could if I wanted to but I don't see a good reason to cold turkey off music" or is anger at the very idea or that it is just a stupid idea be aware those are the very same reactions other addicts have--be it gambling, food, sex, alcohol, or drugs.
And be aware that music addiction is a real physical drug addiction, just that your body makes the drugs for you. You may be addicted to cortisol, adrenaline, epinephrine or nor-epinephrine, dopamine, or other naturally produced somewhat like meth, coke, or pot brain chemicals.
Prove me wrong. Do it for 90 days and then come back to the discussion.
I dare ya
Which makes me suspect a few things. Let the Holy Spirit convict you if I press a button. I think someone is telling you the music isn't good, and you came here looking for help convincing them it is good. Or you came here just to try and convert us to accept it. Or you are addicted to it.
Let me challenge you with something: cold turkey off ALL MUSIC for 90 days. Let your parents and pastor know what you are doing, so if possible you come in late to church for a short time so as to miss the music. I believe you will go through an unpleasant time of withdrawal and be a real pill to be around. You will be angry, depressed, achy, and just generally find life rotten. For a few days to a week or so, that is. Then comes the detox phase where you will slowly feel better, find you think more clearly, eat and sleep better, and find yourself several years more mature.
If you can get through this, then and only then can you study and learn how music affects us physically, mentally, and emotionally. You can then with a clear mind tell scripturally which music meets basic Bible instructions and which does not.
If your reaction to this challenge is "I could if I wanted to but I don't see a good reason to cold turkey off music" or is anger at the very idea or that it is just a stupid idea be aware those are the very same reactions other addicts have--be it gambling, food, sex, alcohol, or drugs.
And be aware that music addiction is a real physical drug addiction, just that your body makes the drugs for you. You may be addicted to cortisol, adrenaline, epinephrine or nor-epinephrine, dopamine, or other naturally produced somewhat like meth, coke, or pot brain chemicals.
Prove me wrong. Do it for 90 days and then come back to the discussion.
I dare ya
FrigidDev
Member
I came here to debate my point with opposing views. I've done exactly what I set out to do.FrididDev, you came and asked a question which implies you were open to hearing other people answer. When the answer was not what you appear to seek--confirmation that death metal is ok if the lyrics are Christian--you began to argue. You won't accept answers from opinion (fair enough) or science or Scripture. You want to refute everything except the answer you seek.
Which makes me suspect a few things. Let the Holy Spirit convict you if I press a button. I think someone is telling you the music isn't good, and you came here looking for help convincing them it is good. Or you came here just to try and convert us to accept it. Or you are addicted to it.
Let me challenge you with something: cold turkey off ALL MUSIC for 90 days. Let your parents and pastor know what you are doing, so if possible you come in late to church for a short time so as to miss the music. I believe you will go through an unpleasant time of withdrawal and be a real pill to be around. You will be angry, depressed, achy, and just generally find life rotten. For a few days to a week or so, that is. Then comes the detox phase where you will slowly feel better, find you think more clearly, eat and sleep better, and find yourself several years more mature.
If you can get through this, then and only then can you study and learn how music affects us physically, mentally, and emotionally. You can then with a clear mind tell scripturally which music meets basic Bible instructions and which does not.
If your reaction to this challenge is "I could if I wanted to but I don't see a good reason to cold turkey off music" or is anger at the very idea or that it is just a stupid idea be aware those are the very same reactions other addicts have--be it gambling, food, sex, alcohol, or drugs.
And be aware that music addiction is a real physical drug addiction, just that your body makes the drugs for you. You may be addicted to cortisol, adrenaline, epinephrine or nor-epinephrine, dopamine, or other naturally produced somewhat like meth, coke, or pot brain chemicals.
Prove me wrong. Do it for 90 days and then come back to the discussion.
I dare ya
I guess that challenge could be a good idea...but I run the computer for our church services(slides, music, etc), and I'm also the song leader for my youth group. Oh and I'm also part of the teen ensemble. So I don't think that's really gonna work out for me.
And to quote Here Comes the Boom(movie),
"without music life would be a mistake"
FrigidDev
Member
Bro I play guitar, I sing in the ensemble, I lead the songs, I run the slides. I love music, in all its forms. I don't mind fasting from things, but going 3 months without music of any kind is just nuts. No thanks! I'll be depriving myself not only of the "scary" death metal, but also hymns and spiritual songs, which the Bible explicitly states should be listened to. So you're being unbiblical by calling for fasting from something the Bible supports.
I disagree, nodak. FrididDev actually has maintained (IMHO) a very reasonable dialogue. I disagree with his conclusions that the music itself is not “dark”, but I am willing to admit that this may also be my own subjectivity.
This “scientific” evidence is very interesting. That said, it does remind me of the hype surrounding “backwards masking” in the early 80’s.
I will, however, agree that this type of music exhibits the same signs of addiction. At one time I listened to more aggressive music. What once got me “pumped” soon paled and I listened to even more aggressive music. When what you are looking for is extreme, and what you've found to be extreme becomes common...well, then you go to the next step. I believe that this principle applies across other media as well (the shock of horror movies, the violence in movies or games, etc.). But I chalk this up as appealing to our flesh (what appeals to us).
Maybe it works on the other side as well….you know…you go from ABBA to Paul Simon to Barry Manilow….to dead. Laugh
This “scientific” evidence is very interesting. That said, it does remind me of the hype surrounding “backwards masking” in the early 80’s.
I will, however, agree that this type of music exhibits the same signs of addiction. At one time I listened to more aggressive music. What once got me “pumped” soon paled and I listened to even more aggressive music. When what you are looking for is extreme, and what you've found to be extreme becomes common...well, then you go to the next step. I believe that this principle applies across other media as well (the shock of horror movies, the violence in movies or games, etc.). But I chalk this up as appealing to our flesh (what appeals to us).
Maybe it works on the other side as well….you know…you go from ABBA to Paul Simon to Barry Manilow….to dead. Laugh
FrigidDev
Member
I definitely agree that I progressed to heavier music, but it had a limit, when I ended up with a genre I liked that was sufficiently heavy.
I like blackened death metal, but there are other genres like Brutal Death and Grindcore that are just too heavy for me (yes I know a shocker).
For example, this song is shockingly heavy, couldn't take it(even with it's very christian message).
Then to counter, a song that I do like:
<iframe style="border: 0; width: 100%; height: 42px;" src="https://bandcamp.com/EmbeddedPlayer...col=0687f5/track=4029011600/transparent=true/" seamless><a href="">The Supernal Hunger by Throne Of Awful Splendor</a></iframe>
I just knew that ABBA would be mentioned before this thread was over. Ugh...
*laugh*
That's 'cause you can dance....you can jive, Rolfe.....having the time of your life.....Laugh
IMHO, brother Frigid, the ultimate issue becomes one of salt and light. I do not believe that this is an issue tied specifically to "death metal," but rather that we have a tendency to want what we want, to like what we like, and to look like the secular culture with which we identify. Put simply, we would rather have Christ as an addition to our lives. We do not want to give up the things we have grown to love, but instead we would like to cling to those things within a "Christian" context.
As an illustration, I once listened to a debate regarding the Catholic use of sacraments. A protestant teacher (I can't remember who was debating the issue) basically accused the RCC of taking pagan rituals and incorporating them into "Christianity" as the sacrament of communion. In defense, the priest acknowledged that their practice was taken from Roman paganism but concluded that God purified the pagan ritual so as to be acceptable.
Ultimately, I believe that this is something that you are going to have to decide. Look at the music and why you like it. Look at how it is interpreted by those you encounter on a daily basis. Prayerfully consider the genre. In the end I think that you will find that you are going to grow away from the music....simply because that is what happens with music. I wouldn't worry about people disagreeing with your conclusions, but I'd also hold those conclusions with a grain of salt.
There are some here who like Christian Rap. I would rather staple a Chick tract to my face than listen to Christian Rap. I pretty much feel the same about death metal. But you and I are different people. You are not accountable to me or the BB. Take our opinion for what it is. You are, however, accountable to God and to your church. That is where, IMHO, you should seek guidance (and take that guidance to heart).
Watch Out.....that's The Name of the Game.
I Wonder if I should hide in Another Town, Another Train, perhaps Waterloo or Happy Hawaii. Otherwise, this will go On and On and On...
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