What are your thoughts on music?

[JonC]

Haha, I always thought irregardless sounded cooler. Guess I'll switch to regardless. :/

It's almost like a punctuation to the regardless. Thumbsup

 

[FrigidDev]

I've been a metal head since 1988. It's not bad, but its a bit slow for me. I go for the speed metal - 90 mph with the petal floored is what I go for.

Sent from my SM-S766C using Tapatalk

Nice!
I'm fairly new to metal in general, I've listened to melodic rock/metal for about a year, and death metal/black metal for the past month or so maybe.

 

[Aaron]

But is a Christian's general demeanor characterized by aggression and anger or joy and love? In other words, this kind of music seems hard to fulfill the chief duty of man: glorify God by enjoying him forever.

Paul didn't mention dithyrambs in Epheshians 5:19, though they were a well-established form. "Be not drunk with wine" is tantamount to a ban on the form. Music isn't the point in that passage, and neither in Col. 3:16. Demeanor is the point, and the styles are invoked as examples thereof.

 

[Aaron]

Ain't is a word too, if one is going by usage.

 

[FrigidDev]

I respectfully disagree that this is even possible. If you can separate the message of the music from the message of the lyrics, then you are a rare exception and certainly not the rule. The truth is, the music itself, with or without lyrics (Christian or secular) sends a message all by itself. It send a strong message.

I have long been amazed that the only ones who use the "music is amoral" argument are "Christian" artists. Secular artists, by their own testimony, know better and actually use the message in the music to their advantage.

I'm not sure if I understand what you're talking about. I'm talking about an instrumental death metal song. I don't get angry from listening to that...if anything I just get pumped up, same how as I would be relaxed by classical music. There's nothing wrong with up-beat or music that gets you pumped. In that case, I see no difference(spiritually), between an electric guitar, and a violin.

However, I would never listen to a secular death metal song, and try to separate the lyrics from the music. If the lyrics are evil...the song is evil, plain and simple. However, if the music is getting me pumped, and the lyrics are christian, and about sin and God, then there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Greektim]

Ain't is a word too, if one is going by usage.

I don't care what you say... Aint aint a word, irregardless of usage!!!

 

[Greektim]

I'm not sure if I understand what you're talking about. I'm talking about an instrumental death metal song. I don't get angry from listening to that...if anything I just get pumped up, same how as I would be relaxed by classical music. There's nothing wrong with up-beat or music that gets you pumped. In that case, I see no difference(spiritually), between an electric guitar, and a violin.

However, I would never listen to a secular death metal song, and try to separate the lyrics from the music. If the lyrics are evil...the song is evil, plain and simple. However, if the music is getting me pumped, and the lyrics are christian, and about sin and God, then there's nothing wrong with that.

Have you ever heard of the phrase "The medium is the message"?

It was coined from a book with the same title. It focused on advertisement, but biblical scholars have made use of this as well applying it to genre and structure of Scripture (among other things).

I think it fits here as well. The medium is "death metal". As you see it, the function is determined by the lyrics. But if the axiom "the medium is the message" is true, then lyrics be damned. What message comes through is the aggressive, get pumped, violent music. And so I draw a line.

 

[Revmitchell]

J

So here is the question: can you truly say that this music, regardless of the words and intent of the words, elicits a positive response that brings glory to God???

Nope not possibel

 

[Greektim]

James White agrees too, having just (I mean like yesterday) critiqued another death metal group and pointing out based on style and substance that lack of Christian virtue. Just sayin'

 

[FrigidDev]

Have you ever heard of the phrase "The medium is the message"?

It was coined from a book with the same title. It focused on advertisement, but biblical scholars have made use of this as well applying it to genre and structure of Scripture (among other things).

I think it fits here as well. The medium is "death metal". As you see it, the function is determined by the lyrics. But if the axiom "the medium is the message" is true, then lyrics be damned. What message comes through is the aggressive, get pumped, violent music. And so I draw a line.

Aggressive, getting pumped....I get energized to go out and do something for the Lord.
Violent...I remember how to be careful of Satan's influence on our world, and remember to keep evil sin at bay.


It's really quite easy to understand. CCM is full of fluffy lyrics with fluffy music, that doesn't excite me or energize me at all. It's a snooze-fest. When I listen to DM, I get energized to do God's Will. What is so wrong about music that gets you pumped? I don't understand your point...it's not like I'm getting pumped to go out and kill people...it's all in the choice of what you get pumped about.



P.S. I don't know who James White even is, so not sure why he's so significant.

 

[Greektim]

Aggressive, getting pumped....I get energized to go out and do something for the Lord.
Violent...I remember how to be careful of Satan's influence on our world, and remember to keep evil sin at bay.


It's really quite easy to understand. CCM is full of fluffy lyrics with fluffy music, that doesn't excite me or energize me at all. It's a snooze-fest. When I listen to DM, I get energized to do God's Will. What is so wrong about music that gets you pumped? I don't understand your point...it's not like I'm getting pumped to go out and kill people...it's all in the choice of what you get pumped about.

So you like the music b/c it pumps you up like a pre-game hype video? Is that the job of worship music? Or rather is music supposed to be a response of worship? I would challenge your theology here. What is the operative force in your service for Christ? Is it your pump up music hyping you to go out in self effort to do God's will? Or is the Spirit the operative force working by grace through faith in the gospel what is energizing you to do God's will? Your statements here make it sound like the first. And thus theology matters.

Secondly, the fact that you admit this style of music has a penchant for violence and you have to be careful when you listen to it so as to keep Satan at bay is a huge red flag. Thus my point above about the medium being the message. If the medium is violent, then the corresponding message will also be violent. You can put the lyrics of twinkle twinkle little star in the same music, but it won't help my babies fall asleep. You can put Scripture to the same music (though you wouldn't be able to make out the words), but it won't cause anyone to worship. The medium is the message.

Third, CCM isn't the debate here. But I agree it is a lot of fluff and poor music.

 

[FrigidDev]

So you like the music b/c it pumps you up like a pre-game hype video? Is that the job of worship music? Or rather is music supposed to be a response of worship? I would challenge your theology here. What is the operative force in your service for Christ? Is it your pump up music hyping you to go out in self effort to do God's will? Or is the Spirit the operative force working by grace through faith in the gospel what is energizing you to do God's will? Your statements here make it sound like the first. And thus theology matters.

Secondly, the fact that you admit this style of music has a penchant for violence and you have to be careful when you listen to it so as to keep Satan at bay is a huge red flag. Thus my point above about the medium being the message. If the medium is violent, then the corresponding message will also be violent. You can put the lyrics of twinkle twinkle little star in the same music, but it won't help my babies fall asleep. You can put Scripture to the same music (though you wouldn't be able to make out the words), but it won't cause anyone to worship. The medium is the message.

Third, CCM isn't the debate here. But I agree it is a lot of fluff and poor music.

No. I like this music because it's my taste in music. The effect of this music is that it is energizing. Just like classical is good for studying.

I already have a desire to do God's will...listening to music that reinforces that desire...to get up and actually do something, is a very healthy thing I would argue.

It's not about getting hyped up...it's about listening to music that matches my attitude of service.

When I said "remember how to be careful of Satan's influence on our world, and remember to keep evil sin at bay.", I wasn't talking about within the music, I actually meant quite the opposite. What I meant was that the music is anti-Satan, not just pro-Christian. Meaning when the song says something like "Tear Satan's kingdom down!!", or something similar, it reminds me of the wickedness of this world, and how I have to be careful when listening to secular music(which I very rarely do), because he has control over that industry(along with everything else). He is the prince and power of the air...so sometimes it's easy to get complacent about that and forget. Anti-Satan music is a good reminder.

I strongly disagree that taking Scripture and putting it in a song will, to your point, "return void". We know Biblically that that isn't possible. The medium isn't the message. The message is the message. The medium is just how the message is delivered. You can say "Think of the millions dying without Christ, think of Satan killing the innocent..." put to classical music, and it will have a different effect than when put to death metal. That's the difference.

 

[Greektim]

The medium isn't the message. The message is the message. The medium is just how the message is delivered. You can say "Think of the millions dying without Christ, think of Satan killing the innocent..." put to classical music, and it will have a different effect than when put to death metal. That's the difference.

The rest of your post speaks to the subjectivity in this argument. So I'll skip it.

However I have to point out to you the objective flaw here. You try to discredit a solid axiom with a tautology. "The medium isn't the message. The message is the message." That is not helpful in the least. The axiom is that the message (the gospel) is conveyed via the medium (music style). The funny thing is, you go on to make that point. When you talk about millions dying w/out Christ put to classical music having a different effect... EXACTLY! That is because the medium of the style of music is the message. And you want an appropriate medium to convey the message of Christ. I can't see DM doing that at all.

I get personal preference and all that. Like I said, I enjoy deep, rich lyrics in Christian rap (so Lecrea isn't high on my preferences). But worship music has to be more than about preferences. This is where the argument in church fails. Hymns vs contemporary style is meaningless. They both, in their respective cultures, convey the message of the cross. The only culture I can hear DM speaking to is a depraved, death-seeking culture. If you can get something out of it, I am not able to sympathize. I have a hard time even mentally empathizing. But I'm sure you knew that, which is why you started this thread.

Good discussion, bud. Stick around here and enjoy more of the forum!

 

[FrigidDev]

The rest of your post speaks to the subjectivity in this argument. So I'll skip it.

However I have to point out to you the objective flaw here. You try to discredit a solid axiom with a tautology. "The medium isn't the message. The message is the message." That is not helpful in the least. The axiom is that the message (the gospel) is conveyed via the medium (music style). The funny thing is, you go on to make that point. When you talk about millions dying w/out Christ put to classical music having a different effect... EXACTLY! That is because the medium of the style of music is the message. And you want an appropriate medium to convey the message of Christ. I can't see DM doing that at all.

I get personal preference and all that. Like I said, I enjoy deep, rich lyrics in Christian rap (so Lecrea isn't high on my preferences). But worship music has to be more than about preferences. This is where the argument in church fails. Hymns vs contemporary style is meaningless. They both, in their respective cultures, convey the message of the cross. The only culture I can hear DM speaking to is a depraved, death-seeking culture. If you can get something out of it, I am not able to sympathize. I have a hard time even mentally empathizing. But I'm sure you knew that, which is why you started this thread.

Good discussion, bud. Stick around here and enjoy more of the forum!

I didn't go on to make the same point though. I guess a better response would have been "The medium isn't the whole message, the message is most of the message", then went on to say how classical music, does indeed have an effect, but it won't change the ultimate truth(or untruth) of the actual message of the song. Sure, medium plays a role, but it isn't the determining factor.

Now look at where you're coming from. You enjoy Rap, but think that somehow the culture of death metal is "depraved, death seeking". That's kind of a blanket statement, and seems to me to sprout from a lack of familiarity with this genre of music. The only reason death metal is called death metal, is because it's named after the band that sort of started the genre. It doesn't mean that metalheads are depraved and death-seeking, just like people who enjoy Rap aren't black, and thugs. They're both stereotypes that have nothing to do with the actual music, and you're buying into it.

 

[aiki]

I'm a baptist(from a baptist family), but most of the people I know are OK with mild-CCM.

I however, listen to christian death/black metal, so what are your thoughts on that kind of music?

Here's a sample to let you know what I listen to. This song is definitely overtly-christian, and shares the Word of God.

So, where is the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance in the music sample you offered? I could discern none of the fruit of the Spirit in what I heard. Although I could not distinguish a single word of the song, it did, however, leave me with a strong impression of violent rage. The song sounded like the background music to a horror movie. How, then, does it evoke the beauty, love, gentleness and holiness of Christ?

However, when I listen to good, christian death metal, I'm thinking about the depravity of our world, and the bleak fact that billions, BILLIONS of people have died and are dying, without the knowledge of Jesus Christ. That makes me angry, and frustrated. If I'm getting riled up and aggressive, I'm doing it because we have to remember that we each have a purpose in life, given to us by God, and we must do this task with extreme diligence. Getting frustrated about our world is the driving force for what I do...I want change, I don't want to sit back and watch the world burn.

Actually, the Bible no where urges this sort of motivation for evangelism. It is love for God and for others that is to fuel our sharing of the Gospel, not frustration and/or anger. I wonder, too, how many people you've evangelized or led to Christ in the last, say, six months? Has this threatening, angry music actually aided you in being salt and light in the world? Are you a better ambassador for Christ, more like the holy, gentle, faithful Jesus, because you've made a diet of death/black metal? Like begets like, brother.

Selah.

 

[FrigidDev]

So, where is the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance in the music sample you offered? I could discern none of the fruit of the Spirit in what I heard. Although I could not distinguish a single word of the song, it did, however, leave me with a strong impression of violent rage. The song sounded like the background music to a horror movie. How, then, does it evoke the beauty, love, gentleness and holiness of Christ?



Actually, the Bible no where urges this sort of motivation for evangelism. It is love for God and for others that is to fuel our sharing of the Gospel, not frustration and/or anger. I wonder, too, how many people you've evangelized or led to Christ in the last, say, six months? Has this threatening, angry music actually aided you in being salt and light in the world? Are you a better ambassador for Christ, more like the holy, gentle, faithful Jesus, because you've made a diet of death/black metal? Like begets like, brother.

Selah.

I think that to say we shouldn't be angry about sin and the death of the unsaved, is a very weird statement. If you're not frustrated and incensed about the sex trafficking , deceit of Satan onto impressionable youth, and the leading astray of billions of people, then I would think your attitude is wrong. Christianity isn't always about "Oh I'm so holy, full of peace and joy and oh isn't everything just perfect...". No. People are dying every day, 90,000 to be exact, and most of them are going to hell. That infuriates me, and I don't see how that point is being lost on you.

 

[Greektim]

I didn't go on to make the same point though. I guess a better response would have been "The medium isn't the whole message, the message is most of the message", then went on to say how classical music, does indeed have an effect, but it won't change the ultimate truth(or untruth) of the actual message of the song. Sure, medium plays a role, but it isn't the determining factor.

Now look at where you're coming from. You enjoy Rap, but think that somehow the culture of death metal is "depraved, death seeking". That's kind of a blanket statement, and seems to me to sprout from a lack of familiarity with this genre of music. The only reason death metal is called death metal, is because it's named after the band that sort of started the genre. It doesn't mean that metalheads are depraved and death-seeking, just like people who enjoy Rap aren't black, and thugs. They're both stereotypes that have nothing to do with the actual music, and you're buying into it.

Well, I am using "rap" in a broad sense. But there are certainly subgenres of rap just as there are in rock and even further in metal. The rap I enjoy is not the hardcore gangsta rap or booty shakin' kind that you hear in a club. It thought provoking with a good beat. Head bobbin' mind blown' lyrical theology. I'd say the same about your stuff, but you can't understand a single word.

Back to the axiom. I think you are more naive on just how much the medium is the message. That was what made the corresponding book so enlightening. We don't realize it until we are exposed to it. When you see this at work in the text of Scripture, it is nearly jaw dropping. A great example is the 80 page introduction of John Sailhamer's book The Pentateuch as Narrative. It will change the way you understand the first 5 books of the Bible. It is rooted in the idea that the medium is the message. This is one of those things that I can only point you to the truth. You have to seek out its validity on your own.

Good on ya!

 

[FrigidDev]

Well, I am using "rap" in a broad sense. But there are certainly subgenres of rap just as there are in rock and even further in metal. The rap I enjoy is not the hardcore gangsta rap or booty shakin' kind that you hear in a club. It thought provoking with a good beat. Head bobbin' mind blown' lyrical theology. I'd say the same about your stuff, but you can't understand a single word.

Back to the axiom. I think you are more naive on just how much the medium is the message. That was what made the corresponding book so enlightening. We don't realize it until we are exposed to it. When you see this at work in the text of Scripture, it is nearly jaw dropping. A great example is the 80 page introduction of John Sailhamer's book The Pentateuch as Narrative. It will change the way you understand the first 5 books of the Bible. It is rooted in the idea that the medium is the message. This is one of those things that I can only point you to the truth. You have to seek out its validity on your own.

Good on ya!

Ok, I guess I'll take your word for it and look more into that axiom, although it sounds contradictory to me..

And I can understand the lyrics of that song(and that is definitely one of the heaviest songs I listen to), it's just like when you can't understand the rap lyrics at first in one of those times were it's super fast, but after you listen to it a few times, you can understand it.

 

[aiki]

I think that to say we shouldn't be angry about sin and the death of the unsaved, is a very weird statement. If you're not frustrated and incensed about the sex trafficking , deceit of Satan onto impressionable youth, and the leading astray of billions of people, then I would think your attitude is wrong. Christianity isn't always about "Oh I'm so holy, full of peace and joy and oh isn't everything just perfect...". No. People are dying every day, 90,000 to be exact, and most of them are going to hell. That infuriates me, and I don't see how that point is being lost on you.

Certainly, we should be powerfully moved by the fate of unrepentant sinners dying in their sins. But where in the Bible is anger or frustration urged upon us as motives for evangelism? And how do you reconcile the rage so evident in black/death metal with the gentleness, peace, joy and love that Scripture says ought to characterize a disciple of Christ?

Proverbs 29:22
22 An angry man stirs up strife, And a furious man abounds in transgression.

Selah.

 

[Greektim]

Ok, I guess I'll take your word for it and look more into that axiom, although it sounds contradictory to me..

And I can understand the lyrics of that song(and that is definitely one of the heaviest songs I listen to), it's just like when you can't understand the rap lyrics at first in one of those times were it's super fast, but after you listen to it a few times, you can understand it.

Yeah... that's never happened to me.