Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
What version is this that you quote?
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What are your thoughts on Salvation and those who haven't heard the Gospel ?
- Thread starter TomLaPalm
- Start date
49 But this multitude that knoweth not the law are accursed. Jn 7
49 But this multitude that knoweth not the gospel are accursed. Jn 7
ASV.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
I'm not seeing that in the ASV. Are there more than one version of the ASV?
I've explained the point of my facetiousness already at the beginning of the thread. The gospel is to evangelicals as the law was to the Pharisees.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
That's cool, I only wanted to know what version it is in. It's not in any version that I've found. Your post made it appear that it is in the ASV.
1901 American Standard Version:
49 But this multitude that knoweth not the law are accursed. Jn 7
Kyredneck to make a point version:
49 But this multitude that knoweth not the gospel are accursed. Jn 7
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
my point is that it doesn't say 'the gospel'.
As far as evangelicals are concerned it might as well say 'the gospel'.
After all, the gospel was given to the church as the instrument to populate heaven with, right?
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Thank God for the gospel. I've seen many a persons heart and eyes opened unto salvation by exegeting and preaching the message. Thank God for godly men who continue to preach it.
Totally agree.
Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16
But biblical salvation is not a one time abracadabra event. It's an ongoing affair throughout the life of the faithful.
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1
Being 'saved' is an everyday ongoing affair. The heavenly birth occurs only once, apart from the gospel.
Sorry, no evidence that anyone has died without hearing the gospel.
Well that cinches it then. Rev says there's no evidence so that means EVERYONE that's ever lived on earth has heard the gospel and been given the chance to decide whether they want to go to heaven or not.
How were people saved in the Old Testament?
Jesus had not come yet. He walked on earth with Adam and Eve, Genesis 3:8 "And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden."
Adam and Eve knew He existed, and they had to believe this promise, 15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
God promised a savior, who would come as the seed of woman that is the virgin birth. He would have His heel bruised, this happened on he cross1000's of years later. He would crush the head of satan. Triumph and for them the promise of a savior. They believed in that savior to come as did the generations to follow, We see Enoch, 24 "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."
But men begin to be corrupt and God would destroy him except we have one, Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
Why because Noah was a man of Faith like Enoch had been, He believed in the savior who was to come and here is God's remnant, God always has a Remnant of believers among people.
This may take a couple of post, and of course is how I see it;
How were people saved in the Old Testament?
Jesus had not come yet.
We see that He walked on earth with Adam and Eve, Genesis 3:8 "And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden."
Adam and Eve knew He existed, and they had to believe this promise,
15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
God promised a savior, who would come as the seed of woman that is the virgin birth. He would have His heel bruised, this happened on he cross1000's of years later. He would crush the head of satan. Triumph and for them the promise of a savior.
Did they believe well he created coats by sacrificing animals? The annual sacrifice began for we see, Cain and Abel.
Genesis 4: 3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Both required to offer a blood sacrifice, which revealed that they believed in the savior who come and shed His blood. Abel believed Cain rejected. Then we see that generation which followed believed in the savior who was coming, we see Enoch, "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."
How were these people in that day saved? They believed a Savior was coming. Enoch had a daily walk with that savior and he was taken.
Then we see men beginning to do evil continually and what does God find among the evil?
Genesis 6:8 “But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.”
Why did Noah find grace among all those folks, because Noah was a man of Faith like Enoch had been, He believed in the savior who was to come and here we see God's remnant, God always has a Remnant of believers among people.
Genesis 7:1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.
Noah was Righteous because he did according unto all that the Lord Commanded Him. God caused the flood to happen and all humanity was killed. We see the new beginning for man with Noah and the other 7. As time progressed we see another come on the scene,
Genesis 11: 1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. 3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. 4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
God scattered the people at this time, guess what Noah and his sons and their wives were most likely still living at this time. So when the people were scattered abroad, that is all over the world there would have been righteous with the unrighteous. We see that in this,
Genesis 12: 1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Abram was a saved man in a land of fire (UR) and destruction (Chaldees). Yet God had a Remnant there and called Him to go into another land. Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness. What did he believe that a savior, a son was coming!
We see too Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah,
Genesis 18:33 32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
Had God found just ten righteous He would not have destroyed those cities, yet we see:
2 Peter 2: 6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
God delivered Lot, the remnant of those cities.
But was Abram the only saved person of his time? We another a man believed to be his contemporary:
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Why was he considered upright and perfect because he too was a man of faith in a savior to Come! So there were most likely others who were righteous in those days, a remanant of people who believed.
We see too Romans 11: 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
God has a remnant at this present time, a remnant scattered all over this earth.
Point being at the time of the scattering there was a remnant of believers, God saw to it that each and every language group that was scattered had some means of seeing and knowing His plan to send a savior.
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Continued:
What do we know of these so called unreached people, look at the American Indians and we see:
Ababinili is the Creator God of the Chickasaw tribe. His name means "one who sits above" or "dwells above," and he is associated with the Sun. Ababinili is considered to be a divine spirit with no human form or attributes and is not normally personified in Chickasaw myths.
Gudatrigakwitl means "The Ancient One Above" in the Wiyot language, and is the Wiyot name for the Creator (God.) Gudatrigakwitl is a divine spirit with no human form or attributes and is never personified in Wiyot myths.
See how this one sounds!
History of the Anishinaabek
In the beginning, Gizhemanidoo created the universe as we know it today. He created Grandfather Sun and Grandmother Moon, Mother Earth and Father Sky. And on the earth he created all things, living and nonliving. He created life in the earth, on the earth, in the sky and in the water. He created the plants, rivers, four-legged and winged creatures, and the swimmers. After this was done, he created one of the greatest mysteries of all – the four seasons – to bring harmony and balance to all.
After all creation was complete, he created man. After he created the first Anishinaabe, he came to him in a dream and instructed him that he was to name all things in the language that he gave him, Anishinaabemowin. So the first man went about on his journey and named all things he saw – all the animals, insects, birds and fish – however long this took. Afterward, he spoke to the Creator Gizhemanidoo in his dream and said, “I have finished what you have told me to do.” Then the Creator Gizhemanidoo spoke back to him and said, “Yes, you have indeed done so, and now it is time for me to give you your name. Your name shall be Nanabozho, and whenever your people meet and greet one another, they will say a part of your name. That is why whenever the Anishinaabe people greet one another, they say the word Bozhoo.
God has a remnant in all people groups that has been with them since the scattering at Babel.
What do we know of these so called unreached people, look at the American Indians and we see:
Ababinili is the Creator God of the Chickasaw tribe. His name means "one who sits above" or "dwells above," and he is associated with the Sun. Ababinili is considered to be a divine spirit with no human form or attributes and is not normally personified in Chickasaw myths.
Gudatrigakwitl means "The Ancient One Above" in the Wiyot language, and is the Wiyot name for the Creator (God.) Gudatrigakwitl is a divine spirit with no human form or attributes and is never personified in Wiyot myths.
See how this one sounds!
History of the Anishinaabek
In the beginning, Gizhemanidoo created the universe as we know it today. He created Grandfather Sun and Grandmother Moon, Mother Earth and Father Sky. And on the earth he created all things, living and nonliving. He created life in the earth, on the earth, in the sky and in the water. He created the plants, rivers, four-legged and winged creatures, and the swimmers. After this was done, he created one of the greatest mysteries of all – the four seasons – to bring harmony and balance to all.
After all creation was complete, he created man. After he created the first Anishinaabe, he came to him in a dream and instructed him that he was to name all things in the language that he gave him, Anishinaabemowin. So the first man went about on his journey and named all things he saw – all the animals, insects, birds and fish – however long this took. Afterward, he spoke to the Creator Gizhemanidoo in his dream and said, “I have finished what you have told me to do.” Then the Creator Gizhemanidoo spoke back to him and said, “Yes, you have indeed done so, and now it is time for me to give you your name. Your name shall be Nanabozho, and whenever your people meet and greet one another, they will say a part of your name. That is why whenever the Anishinaabe people greet one another, they say the word Bozhoo.
God has a remnant in all people groups that has been with them since the scattering at Babel.
That was very eye opening and informative and I agree with what you said and with all that evidence you will never hear me say that any race of people especially the Anishinaabek are not heaven bound... Their belief say they are!... Brother Glen
You need to explain that further please , What do you think the Gospel is"
I can't verify the veracity of the account, but have heard it several times: they say that when they could finally communicate with Helen Keller, they told her about Jesus. Her response: "Oh, I already knew Him, I just didn't know His name."
Paul speaks of those who fulfill the Law written on their hearts. God is just and merciful, and gives to every man enough revelation to be saved.
God bless.
Tom, how do you think men were saved before Christ was sent in the World? Just asking.
God bless.