What are your thoughts on Salvation and those who haven't heard the Gospel ?

[Darrell C]

But biblical salvation is not a one time abracadabra event. It's an ongoing affair throughout the life of the faithful.

While we await the redemption of our bodies, we are, in an abracadabra moment, lol...saved. And we will be no more "saved" when we are glorified (in regards to Eternal Redemption) than we are when we are born again:


1 John 5:13

King James Version (KJV)

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


Titus 3:4-5

King James Version (KJV)

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The heavenly birth occurs only once, apart from the gospel.

Not at all:



1 Peter 1:23

King James Version (KJV)

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


James 1:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.


God bless.

 

[TomLaPalm]

Tom, how do you think men were saved before Christ was sent in the World? Just asking.


God bless.

By Faith ,same as us, God gives us the Faith to exercise, The blanks in knowledge were filled in later. J

1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The question is what about those God chose to put in a time and place where no knowledge of Christ , or God, could be known.

Did they have eternal souls?

 

[Darrell C]

By Faith ,same as us, God gives us the Faith to exercise, The blanks in knowledge were filled in later. J

Now, Tom...how does one exercise faith? Do they not have to have something to place faith in?

They had faith in the revealed will they had at the time, it was not necessary that they have a knowledge of Jesus Christ in specific New Testament understanding. That is clearly shown as something not revealed to men in past Ages:


Romans 16:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The question is what about those God chose to put in a time and place where no knowledge of Christ , or God, could be known.

I answered this in Post #17, so would just suggest you address the post.

You are imposing a demand which is not supported by Scripture, that is, "Unless someone hears the Gospel of Jesus Christ they cannot be saved." That is an unfortunate doctrinal position that denies the teachings which pertain to the Mystery of the Gospel. See in Post 17 the Romans references, where we see Gentiles, explicitly stated not to have the Law, fulfilled the Law which was written upon their hearts.

Did they have eternal souls?

Well, have to get going, so will just say briefly I do not view men as having souls, but being souls, so my answer would be they were eternal souls, as in fact all men are. All born into this world will spend eternity somewhere.


God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

What do you think the Gospel is

27 And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Lu 24

 

[TomLaPalm]

27 And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Lu 24

Well said, but you seem to belittle the Gospel. Are you differing evangelism from presenting the Gospel?

 

[TomLaPalm]

Yes, that is what Scripture teaches.

But, what we also see is that revelation is progressive, so we have to now understand how men were saved back then.

It is very simple: God judges men and their fate is determined based on one thing which is consistent throughout Scripture and the Ages, and that would be man's response to the revelation they have been provided with.

So long story short, your ancestors, those who were born into a time before the Mystery of the Gospel was revealed, were held accountable for the revelation they did have.

First, we have the internal witness of God:


Romans 1:18-19

King James Version (KJV)

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.


Romans 2:14-15

King James Version (KJV)

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)


Paul makes it clear that this revelation alone denies any excuse on behalf of men to disobey...


Romans 1:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



Secondly, we have the Testimony of Creation:


Romans 1:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


This is not just a reference to nature, I believe, but, we consider all aspects of creation and that which we encounter there. I have often wondered at the mind of the atheist, who can look upon the newborn and see a product of electro-chemical process and chance.

Lastly, we have direct revelation, and it is to this that we owe a critical understanding of the progressive nature of the Redemptive Plan.

If we simply acknowledge one basic truth, that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was a mystery not revealed in prior Ages, then we have less trouble actually understanding Progressive Revelation. While we know the Gospel of Christ can be seen as promised throughout Scripture, we have to keep in mind that men of those days did not understand it as we, born again believers, do.

So don't fret too much over your ancestors, Tom. If they were obedient to the revelation provided to them, then their fate was just as that of the faithful we read about in the Old Testament. They would have received a designation of Just, and their transgressions would be redeemed at the Cross, and at that time, they would be made perfect/complete in regards to remission of sins.

It is a common misconception that one must hear the Gospel to be saved, but, we look at Paul's statements here and see Gentiles, who did not even have the Hebrew Scriptures or the Law...said to be in obedience to the Law of God. And that is because God revealed it to them through those two means Paul speaks of.


God bless.

Now, Tom...how does one exercise faith? Do they not have to have something to place faith in?

They had faith in the revealed will they had at the time, it was not necessary that they have a knowledge of Jesus Christ in specific New Testament understanding. That is clearly shown as something not revealed to men in past Ages:


Romans 16:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:






I answered this in Post #17, so would just suggest you address the post.

You are imposing a demand which is not supported by Scripture, that is, "Unless someone hears the Gospel of Jesus Christ they cannot be saved." That is an unfortunate doctrinal position that denies the teachings which pertain to the Mystery of the Gospel. See in Post 17 the Romans references, where we see Gentiles, explicitly stated not to have the Law, fulfilled the Law which was written upon their hearts.



Well, have to get going, so will just say briefly I do not view men as having souls, but being souls, so my answer would be they were eternal souls, as in fact all men are. All born into this world will spend eternity somewhere.


God bless.

Rom 10:13

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14

¶
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[kyredneck]

Well said, but you seem to belittle the Gospel.

I cherish the gospel; what on earth have I written to make you think I belittle it?

Are you differing evangelism from presenting the Gospel?

I don't understand the question.

 

[Darrell C]

Rom 10:13

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14

¶
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So does regeneration, but we do not divorce the Ministry of the Comforter in this Age, and the ministry of the Holy Ghost in the Old Testament...from the equation.

Men do not simply pick up a Bible, or turn on a radio and listen to a Gospel message...and intellectually understand or receive the truth of the Gospel.

They must be enlightened by the Spirit of God first. This is true in all Ages.

Show me one person in Scripture that was in relationship with God who did not first benefit from God's ministry. You won't find such an individual.

Even for Gentiles who obeyed the Law written on their heart...are in debt to God first revealing that Law to them.


Romans 1:18-20

King James Version (KJV)

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



Romans 2:13-15

King James Version (KJV)

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)


This is the means of revelation both in Old Testament Eras as well as today.

But the Ministry of God in this Age has been shown to us by Christ:


John 16:7-9

King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;


The only real difference between these two Ministries is...the revelation itself. God was not revealing the Mystery of the Gospel in those days, it was hidden. If you go to Biblegateway and do a search of "mystery," it will help you understand this better.

I have given you one passage (Romans 16:25-26), let's consider the Gentiles and Gentile Inclusion now:


Ephesians 3

King James Version (KJV)

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


Gentiles were not bereft of the Grace of God when they did not have the Law, but, they were still foreigners to the Commonwealth of Israel. But the Gospel makes of those two groups...one man. There is neither Jew nor Greek, and that is a result of the revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


God bless.

 

[TomLaPalm]

I cherish the gospel; what on earth have I written to make you think I belittle it?



I don't understand the question.

Because you said this:

Well it wasn't intended as a joke. The evangelicals hold to the gospel just as those Pharisees did to their law. If one doesn't know either they're bound for hell. Pharisees believed the law was the key to going to heaven, evangelicals believe the gospel is the key to going to heaven.

And you said there was no Gospel in "He that hath the Son hath Life and he that hath not the Son hath not life."

so what is up if you cherish the Gospel?

 

[TomLaPalm]

I cherish the gospel; what on earth have I written to make you think I belittle it?



I don't understand the question.

Because you said this:

Well it wasn't intended as a joke. The evangelicals hold to the gospel just as those Pharisees did to their law. If one doesn't know either they're bound for hell. Pharisees believed the law was the key to going to heaven, evangelicals believe the gospel is the key to going to heaven.

And you said there was no Gospel in "He that hath the Son hath Life and he that hath not the Son hath not life."

so what is up if you cherish the Gospel?

 

[TomLaPalm]

I cherish the gospel; what on earth have I written to make you think I belittle it?



I don't understand the question.

Because you said this:

Well it wasn't intended as a joke. The evangelicals hold to the gospel just as those Pharisees did to their law. If one doesn't know either they're bound for hell. Pharisees believed the law was the key to going to heaven, evangelicals believe the gospel is the key to going to heaven.

And you said there was no Gospel in "He that hath the Son hath Life and he that hath not the Son hath not life."

so what is up if you cherish the Gospel?