Some Catholics do read the bible despite the church itself
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What can you tell us about Jesus's forever torture chamber?
- Thread starter Mur
- Start date
The problem is this guy is extremely dangerous teaching this fluffy crap, if he convinces someone it could cost a soul.
I don’t know who twisted the scripture for him, but he is potentially a soul killer now.
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
The soul can be killed, and this heresy of his is just the type thing that will do it. This will give someone license to sin how he likes and still think he has salvation.
He needs to repent and come back to Christianity.
I couldn't have said it any better!
Mur
Active Member
Why? You don't believe the word of God and you certainly wouldn't believe anyone else.
Mur
Active Member
I just answered in the other thread.
You don't seem to get it. Let me explain a little. I'm 64 years old and have been in Christian message boards for 23 years. You display CLASSIC troll characteristics.
[1] You word things with "jabs" like calling hell "Jesus' forever torture chamber." That's like a boy who uses a stick to scramble the ants.
[2] You have no interest in discussion or healthy debate - only argument.
[3] People tell you the Biblical truth with scripture and you "jab" over and over and ignore what others say.
If you ARE a Christian Universalist - this message board is not for you. You've made that evident.
If you ARE a non-saved troll - this message board is not for you. You've made that evident.
No one here hates you. Not at all. It's just that we have dealt with posts like this for over two decades. Surely there is something else you are interested in, if you ARE a Christian, other than using Universalism to stir the pot.
Mur
Active Member
To you "stirring the pot" is sharing the word of God that contradicts your theology. Here, let me "stir the pot" some more with God's Word, all of which you will utterly IGNORE in order to "win" an argument and maintain your vanity. Heck, you won't even read these scriptures.
Isaiah 52:10
The Lord has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
Titus 2:11
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
Luke 19:10 ESV
"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
1 John 4:14
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
Lamentations 3:31
For the Lord will not cast off forever
Romans 5:18
Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
Romans 11:32
For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”
Revelation 21:5
And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
2 Corinthians 5:19
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Luke 3:6
and all flesh shall see the salvation of God
Philippians 2:10-11
so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Romans 10:9
because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
2 Samuel 14:14
We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.
Ephesians 1:10
As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.
John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
1 Corinthians 15:22-28
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
Why would I not read scriptures? In the past 40+ years, I read, studied, and taught the scriptures to kindergarteners, 6th graders, my peers, a community-wide group, and Sunday School classes including the 70-90 year old women who had forgotten more than I ever knew about the Bible. They are all dead and now I am the old lady.
Give me a chance to sit down and read. I'll be back.
OK, I've read them all, in context and everything.
I'll just respond to a few, but if you want me to respond to them all, I will.
First know that, I have grieved over people who died, with my knowledge being unsaved. I pray for people now who shun and hate Christ. I take NO PLEASURE, as God says in Ezekiel, in the "death of the wicked".
I just have one question. Have you read the Bible or have you just "found" these isolated verses from some list somewhere? Tell the truth.
John 3:17 - "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." Please, PLEASE, just sit down and read the NEXT verse, Mur! Then read John 3 verses 5, 14, 16, and 18!!
You have cherry-picked a verse from chapter three and used it in isolation to refute verses 5, 14, 16, and 18. Those four verses REFUTE universalism. Please read ALL of John 3 IN CONTEXT.
Isaiah 52:10 = “The Lord has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.” = Yes, ALL shall “see” the salvation of God. ALL shall “see” Christ, but not all will be saved. That burdens me, but it is the truth. Millions have died hating Christ. They will bow before him one day, says Paul in Philippians, but they won’t be confessing that they were wrong out of love and adoration, but out of despair that they WERE wrong.
Titus 2:11= “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people.” Ah, I see the problem in making this verse about universalism. It’s the tiny word, “for”. Yes, salvation is “for” all people – in SCOPE. But not in receiving. Not in faith. ANYONE can be saved. A child serial rapist, the habitual liars, and worst of the worst. God can save ANYONE. Anyone who has the faith to believe. And sadly, not all will do that. Jesus, Himself, told his disciples that people will hate them because they hate him, Jesus.
Luke 19:10 ESV = "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.” Yes, he did. But not all received him. Not all WANT to receive him. I have people that I pray for and have prayed for for years. This verse does not say that Jesus universally saves. In fact Jesus said, and I already said this to you, that “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
1 John 4:14 = “And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.” = Yes, ALL have the potential to be saved, but Jesus said that those who refuse to believe on him are condemned!!
1 Timothy 4:10 = “For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.” Why do you think this verse says “especially of those who believe”? It’s because the phrase “the Savior of all people” means that Jesus is that ONLY way for ALL people.
Lamentations 3:31= “For the Lord will not cast off forever” = Mur, have you READ Lamentations? The entire prophetic book is about Jeremiah’s weeping, mourning, and his burden for the people of Judah who had been conquered by the Babylonians. In the middle of chapter 3, he speaks of hope for these people that God will still be merciful to them.
Romans 5:18 = “Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.” Again, “for” all men. The free gift of salvation is “for” all people – men, women, boys, and girls – but it has to be received. The hatred of Christ must be forsaken. Or do Universalists believe that Jesus saved against the will of human or without their knowledge.
John 12:32 = “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.” “DRAW”!!! God, including Jesus and the Holy Spirit “draw” people, but not all people submit, receive or repent.
The closest he has come to answering this is that: 'I don't follow the world, I just follow the word of God'. When pressed about the biblical directive to fellowship he responded; 'I moved to Mexico and I don't know what the local churches believe'
When I asked what church taught this 'biblical belief' he accused me of being hateful.