What Constitutes a Bona Fide Offer?

[JonC]

Greetings again Jon.

So what would you say that the IDR (incarnation, death, resurrection) did to make mankind capable of being able to "accept" or " reject"? Or do you think mankind already had this capacity in their fallen state?

Peace to you brother

I'd say we were capable but unwilling (it was impossible while having a mind set on the flesh).

I look at it this way - Is God capable of lying? If we say "no" then God is certainly weaker than man, for all it'd take is to say something untrue. BUT God will not lie, He is Holy. So it is impossible for God to lue - not because God lacks the power but because of who He is.

Does man have the power not to sin? Yes, hence the guilt of sin. Man lacks the will, his mind is set on the flesh, and so it is impossible for him to please God (he needs to be born of the Spirit).

 

[Silverhair]

I'd say we were capable but unwilling (it was impossible while having a mind set on the flesh).

I look at it this way - Is God capable of lying? If we say "no" then God is certainly weaker than man, for all it'd take is to say something untrue. BUT God will not lie, He is Holy. So it is impossible for God to lie - not because God lacks the power but because of who He is.

Does man have the power not to sin? Yes, hence the guilt of sin. Man lacks the will, his mind is set on the flesh, and so it is impossible for him to please God (he needs to be born of the Spirit).

Very well spoken Jon.

 

[Paleouss]

Yes.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received,
that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and
that He was buried, and
that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies
we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,
much more,
having been reconciled,
we shall be saved by His life.

Greetings Silverhair and happy Monday to you and your family. Thank you for your wisdom and contribution.

I had asked...

2. If you believe in some form of #1. What did Christ's work do to make it possible that the offer of salvation was a bona fide offer?

You replied with some verses, but particularly this one...

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies
we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,
much more,
having been reconciled,
we shall be saved by His life.

I want to focus on two parts of the verse: (A) "reconciled to God", and (B) "having been reconciled".

The overarching theme of this OP is a bona fide offer to all mankind. Although those that believe certainly are included in the bona fide offer. They are not the focus of the OP, but it is those that don't believe that are the focus. To the Calvinist this would be the non-elect.

All that said, using Rom 5:10 and applying it to the unbelieving or non-elect...a question seems to arise. That question is...

In what way are the non-elect (Calvinist version) or unbelieving "reconciled" to God (as Rom 5:10 suggests), BUT, at the same time not yet on God's side?

Here I'm focusing on the word "reconciliation" to mean the restoration of a broken relationship. If this is not your use of the word. Could you please provide it?

1. Those currently that are slaves to sin do not have a relationship with God.
2. Reconciliation is the restoration of a broken relationship.
3. Therefore, upon Christ's work on the cross, all those that are currently slaves to sin now have a relationship with God.

The conclusion of #3 appears false. Can you help with this dilemma?

Peace to you brother

 

[Paleouss]

I'd say we were capable but unwilling (it was impossible while having a mind set on the flesh).

Greetings Jon, Thank you for your time and wisdom on this matter.

I like your quote above. Ok, capable but not willing. As in, the spiritual desires were absent and the fleshly desires were dominant.

I look at it this way - Is God capable of lying? If we say "no" then God is certainly weaker than man, for all it'd take is to say something untrue. BUT God will not lie, He is Holy. So it is impossible for God to lue - not because God lacks the power but because of who He is.

I agree, God does not lie. When He says in the Holy Scriptures that God will be the "justifier" AND "just". He intends us to understand that He will be "just" to all.

So steering this back to the OP. What makes His gospel offer a bona fide offer of salvation to all?

In my studies and prayers over the last couple of days. I have come across this verse which I find very interesting.

(Rom 14:9 ESV) 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Questions you might help answer (or whomever reads this).

1. Christ died so He would be "Lord" of the "dead"? Was Christ not Lord over the dead before the death and resurrection? The verse appears to imply that He was not.

So one purpose of the IDR was to become the Lord of the dead (and living). The dead includes all mankind not just the elect. So once Christ becomes Lord of the dead and living, He raises from the dead "all mankind". Here, Christ's work on the cross actually did something for the unbelieving. He took them from death to resurrected life (before Him in judgment). What He did was conquer the power of sin and death and became Lord over the dead. Being Lord, he raised all mankind in the last day.


Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure

 

[Silverhair]

Greetings Silverhair and happy Monday to you and your family. Thank you for your wisdom and contribution.

I had asked...

You replied with some verses, but particularly this one...


I want to focus on two parts of the verse: (A) "reconciled to God", and (B) "having been reconciled".

The overarching theme of this OP is a bona fide offer to all mankind. Although those that believe certainly are included in the bona fide offer. They are not the focus of the OP, but it is those that don't believe that are the focus. To the Calvinist this would be the non-elect.

All that said, using Rom 5:10 and applying it to the unbelieving or non-elect...a question seems to arise. That question is...

In what way are the non-elect (Calvinist version) or unbelieving "reconciled" to God (as Rom 5:10 suggests), BUT, at the same time not yet on God's side?

Here I'm focusing on the word "reconciliation" to mean the restoration of a broken relationship. If this is not your use of the word. Could you please provide it?

1. Those currently that are slaves to sin do not have a relationship with God.
2. Reconciliation is the restoration of a broken relationship.
3. Therefore, upon Christ's work on the cross, all those that are currently slaves to sin now have a relationship with God.

The conclusion of #3 appears false. Can you help with this dilemma?

Peace to you brother

Good morning Paleouss

Your question points out a Calvinist problem. They have divided the world into two groups the "elect", those saved from before the foundation of the world and the "non-elect", those that are damned from before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation does mean the restoration of a broken relationship but in scripture that does not mean to the point of salvation which is clearly shown in Rom 5:10 "having been reconciled,
we shall be saved by His life."

God has removed all the obstacles to reconciliation which existed on his part. From Gods' perspective He is at peace with mankind through the death of His Son. Christ was the atoning sacrifice that covered the sins of mankind. {1Jn 2:2} For man to be reconciled to God he has to give up his opposition. He has to submit to the terms of mercy. As Paul wrote in 2Co_5:20 "as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God." While God is willing to save us we must be willing to be saved.

Man is not passive in his salvation, he is responsible to respond to the invitation. Rom 10:9-11 is quite clear on the requirement placed on man. "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe" "you will be saved" vs 9 and we see the promise of God "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." vs 11

1 slaves to sin do not have a relationship with God [they reject God]
2 Reconciliation is the restoration of a broken relationship. [Christ was the atoning sacrifice]
3 slaves to sin now have a relationship with God. [they still reject God but God will now save those that will trust in the risen Christ]

So your point #3 is correct. I must be able to reject what I desire to reject and accept what I desire to accept (freedom).
Reconciliation does not save us but it does make us able to be saved through faith in the risen Jesus Christ. Which is just what we see in Rom 5:10 "having been reconciled,
we shall be saved by His life."

 

[Wesley Briggman]

So once Christ becomes Lord of the dead and living, He raises from the dead "all mankind".

"He raises from the dead "all mankind.""

Please expound on this claim and provide scriptural support.

 

[Silverhair]

"He raises from the dead "all mankind.""

Please expound on this claim and provide scriptural support.

Wesley this is how I would understand what Paleouss is saying but I do stand to be corected if he has a different view.

Rev 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, .... And the dead were judged according to their works, ..."

The dead before this throne are evidently at least the unsaved of all ages who now stand resurrected
Rev_20:5 "the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
Dan_12:2 "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt."

God will condemn unbelievers raised to face this judgment because of their works, including failure to believe in Jesus Christ. Expository Notes of Dr. Constable

 

[JonC]

Greetings Jon, Thank you for your time and wisdom on this matter.

I like your quote above. Ok, capable but not willing. As in, the spiritual desires were absent and the fleshly desires were dominant.


I agree, God does not lie. When He says in the Holy Scriptures that God will be the "justifier" AND "just". He intends us to understand that He will be "just" to all.

So steering this back to the OP. What makes His gospel offer a bona fide offer of salvation to all?

In my studies and prayers over the last couple of days. I have come across this verse which I find very interesting.

Questions you might help answer (or whomever reads this).

1. Christ died so He would be "Lord" of the "dead"? Was Christ not Lord over the dead before the death and resurrection? The verse appears to imply that He was not.

So one purpose of the IDR was to become the Lord of the dead (and living). The dead includes all mankind not just the elect. So once Christ becomes Lord of the dead and living, He raises from the dead "all mankind". Here, Christ's work on the cross actually did something for the unbelieving. He took them from death to resurrected life (before Him in judgment). What He did was conquer the power of sin and death and became Lord over the dead. Being Lord, he raised all mankind in the last day.


Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure

I believe what makes salvation a legitimate offer to all mankind is that salvation is avaliable to every man. Every person is drawn to Christ in some sence. Some believe. Others rehect the Light.

I guess a good illustration woul be the rich young ruler who was drawn to Christ, concerned about salvation. Ultimately he rejected the Light because his heart was set on his wealth.
We know he was drawn to God because of the passage (he was there, seeking and asking).
We know he accepted what Jesus told him because he went away grieving.
He was drawn to Christ, understood, rejected. It was a legitimate offer.

Yes, Jesus' death and resurrection was for all of mankind. God exalted Him and gave Him a name above every name. All judgment is given Him.

Rather than condemnation being based on the Law because of sin condemnation is now Christ-centered. Men are condemned because they reject Christ. They do so because their deeds are evil.

Your summary is excellent.

 

[Paleouss]

Please expound on this claim and provide scriptural support.

Wesley this is how I would understand what Paleouss is saying

Greetings to all on this blessed Tuesday. May the grace and hope of our Lord do a great work in you all.

It would seem that Silverhair is going the direction I intended (thanks for the verses). Before I start here, I would like to put a disclaimer that my current analysis of Romans 14:9 is a work in progress. That is, it just has come across my desk as something to study and pray about. However, although this verse may be new for me, the overall heading in which I believe it should be placed under is not new to me. That being Christ's Cosmic Triumph on the cross....

1. The Incarnation, death, and resurrection of God the Son was for multiple purposes.
2. One of those purposes was the work of the Son of God to put all things under His foot (1Cor 15:24-28, Heb 2:8, 1John 3:8, Phil 2:10, 1Pet 3:22).

Those "things" that are being put under the Son of God's foot are "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual [hosts] of wickedness in the heavenly [places]" (Eph 6:12). I have highlighted the words "against powers" to focus on the power of sin and death (emphasis on "power"). Sin and death are the tools, the powers, of the Devil, they are the "works of the devil", one of the multiple purposes that Christ has come to destroy (1John 3:8).

In Romans 14:9 it explicitly states that one of the purposes of the IDR was that "he might be Lord both of the dead and the living". The key word I am focusing on is "dead" or Lord of the dead. Now, my first thought was, is the Son of God not the "Lord" over the "dead" already? But my thoughts quickly turn to the word "dominion" and this fallen kingdom. For it says, "sin shall not have dominion over you" (implying sin has a dominion) (Rom 6:14).

The Holy Scriptures says that the devil is the "ruler of this world" (John 14:30); the "prince of the power of the air" (Eph 2:2); the "whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one" (1John 14:30); and this earthly kingdom would seem to be something that the devil has dominion and authority over, for he can offer it to Jesus (Matt 4:8-9). So now we have...

(a) Rulers of this dark age, and spiritual hosts of wickedness (this is the devil and his dominion).
(b) Powers (this is sin and death and its dominion).

So Christ's work on the cross regarding his Cosmic Triumph was that "The last enemy [that] will be destroyed [is] death" (1Co 15:26 NKJV) ... SO THAT ... "through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil" (Heb 2:14). Kinda like two birds with one stone.

The dominion of sin and death is a "lawless" dominion (power). Focusing on death, there is no law, no ruler, no rule. It is lawless (1John 3:4). It kills indiscriminately (meaning without regard to law or justice (Rom 5:13).

So Christ's work on the cross conquers the dominion of death, and He becomes Lord of the dead (Rom 14:9). As it is written, "O Death, were is your sting? O Hades, were is your victory?" (1Cor 15:55). Notice that Christ has victory over "death" AND "Hades". Christ also "went and preached to the spirits in prison" (1Pe 3:19 NKJV).

Now that Christ is "Lord both of the dead and of the living" (Rom 14:9), He raises from the dead, all the dead. For it is written, "those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame [and] everlasting contempt" (Dan 12:2). But each in his own order. "Christ the firstfruits" is first (Cor 15:20,23), "then at his coming those who belong to Christ" (1Cor 15:23), then there is the second resurrection who are not part of the first resurrection "who are judged according to their works" (Rev 20:12, 20:5). For those of the second resurrection have not chosen faith and belief.

So in this sense, Christ's work on the cross conquered the dominion of the devil and the dominion of sin and death over all mankind. This conquering made the Son of God the Lord of the dead and the living. This frees all mankind in a way that makes it about faith, for it says "Therefore, it is of faith that it might be according to grace" (Rom 4:16).


Thoughts?

 

[Dave G]

Salvation is not an "offer".
It ( and eternal life, which is to know God and His Son, John 17:3 ) are gifts ( Romans 6:23 ) given only to those who believe, have believed or ever will believe, to the saving of the soul.

It is a gift given only to God's elect.

 

[Silverhair]

Salvation is not an "offer".
It ( and eternal life, which is to know God and His Son, John 17:3 ) are gifts ( Romans 6:23 ) given only to those who believe, have believed or ever will believe, to the saving of the soul.

It is a gift given only to God's elect.

Salvation is a gift which is offered to the world through faith in Christ Jesus.

As with any gift it can be received or rejected.
Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

One is only elect when we are in the Elect One, Christ Jesus.
sa_42:1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Silverhair]

Greetings to all on this blessed Tuesday. May the grace and hope of our Lord do a great work in you all.

It would seem that Silverhair is going the direction I intended (thanks for the verses). Before I start here, I would like to put a disclaimer that my current analysis of Romans 14:9 is a work in progress. That is, it just has come across my desk as something to study and pray about. However, although this verse may be new for me, the overall heading in which I believe it should be placed under is not new to me. That being Christ's Cosmic Triumph on the cross....

1. The Incarnation, death, and resurrection of God the Son was for multiple purposes.
2. One of those purposes was the work of the Son of God to put all things under His foot (1Cor 15:24-28, Heb 2:8, 1John 3:8, Phil 2:10, 1Pet 3:22).

Those "things" that are being put under the Son of God's foot are "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual [hosts] of wickedness in the heavenly [places]" (Eph 6:12). I have highlighted the words "against powers" to focus on the power of sin and death (emphasis on "power"). Sin and death are the tools, the powers, of the Devil, they are the "works of the devil", one of the multiple purposes that Christ has come to destroy (1John 3:8).

In Romans 14:9 it explicitly states that one of the purposes of the IDR was that "he might be Lord both of the dead and the living". The key word I am focusing on is "dead" or Lord of the dead. Now, my first thought was, is the Son of God not the "Lord" over the "dead" already? But my thoughts quickly turn to the word "dominion" and this fallen kingdom. For it says, "sin shall not have dominion over you" (implying sin has a dominion) (Rom 6:14).

The Holy Scriptures says that the devil is the "ruler of this world" (John 14:30); the "prince of the power of the air" (Eph 2:2); the "whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one" (1John 14:30); and this earthly kingdom would seem to be something that the devil has dominion and authority over, for he can offer it to Jesus (Matt 4:8-9). So now we have...

(a) Rulers of this dark age, and spiritual hosts of wickedness (this is the devil and his dominion).
(b) Powers (this is sin and death and its dominion).

So Christ's work on the cross regarding his Cosmic Triumph was that "The last enemy [that] will be destroyed [is] death" (1Co 15:26 NKJV) ... SO THAT ... "through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil" (Heb 2:14). Kinda like two birds with one stone.

The dominion of sin and death is a "lawless" dominion (power). Focusing on death, there is no law, no ruler, no rule. It is lawless (1John 3:4). It kills indiscriminately (meaning without regard to law or justice (Rom 5:13).

So Christ's work on the cross conquers the dominion of death, and He becomes Lord of the dead (Rom 14:9). As it is written, "O Death, were is your sting? O Hades, were is your victory?" (1Cor 15:55). Notice that Christ has victory over "death" AND "Hades". Christ also "went and preached to the spirits in prison" (1Pe 3:19 NKJV).

Now that Christ is "Lord both of the dead and of the living" (Rom 14:9), He raises from the dead, all the dead. For it is written, "those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame [and] everlasting contempt" (Dan 12:2). But each in his own order. "Christ the firstfruits" is first (Cor 15:20,23), "then at his coming those who belong to Christ" (1Cor 15:23), then there is the second resurrection who are not part of the first resurrection "who are judged according to their works" (Rev 20:12, 20:5). For those of the second resurrection have not chosen faith and belief.

So in this sense, Christ's work on the cross conquered the dominion of the devil and the dominion of sin and death over all mankind. This conquering made the Son of God the Lord of the dead and the living. This frees all mankind in a way that makes it about faith, for it says "Therefore, it is of faith that it might be according to grace" (Rom 4:16).


Thoughts?

I agree with what you have written. It is clear from scripture that God has given Satan rule over the earth for a time.

Now some are going to say that Christ was always LORD which is true but we see from scripture that man has to choose who he will follow. Who do they want to be lord of their life.

Luk 16:13 "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other….”


Not trying to step on your toes as I made some adjustments to what you had written to correct verse ref’s or to move a verse ref to the appropriate place as I see it. Plus as you can see I expanded the Rev 20:5 to Rev 20:4-6 for a clearer picture.


The Holy Scriptures says that the devil is the "ruler of this world" (John 14:30); the "prince of the power of the air" (Eph 2:2); the "whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one" (1Jn 5:19 1John 14:30); and this earthly kingdom would seem to be something that the devil has dominion and authority over, for he can offer it to Jesus (Matt 4:8-9). So now we have...


But each in his own order. "Christ the firstfruits" is first (1Co_15:20, 23 Cor 15:20,23 ), "then at his coming those who belong to Christ" (1Co_15:23, Rev_20:4-6), then there is the second resurrection who are not part of the first resurrection "who are judged according to their works" (Rev_20:12; Rev_20:5). For those of the second resurrection have not chosen faith and belief.

 

[Paleouss]

Salvation is not an "offer".

Greetings Dave G. Peace, grace, and hope to you this day.

Along with the Calvinistic doctrine of unconditional election, most all Calvinist theologians through history have affirmed that God's offer of salvation in the gospel is real and true for everyone. In other words, it is a bona fide offer to everyone without distinction. Calvinist affirm a genuine desire of God, expressed in the Bible, of a good will gospel offering to everyone.

Usually the Calvinist reconciles the gospel offer as universal with the concept of Irresistible Grace by saying that due to irresistible grace, only the elect will respond in acceptance.

Being technical, salvation itself is most certainly not an "offer". But it is that which is being offered. After making that distinction, the Bible most certainly tells us that God expresses a desire that all be saved... (1Ti 2:4 NKJV) 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Speaking of "the offer", you might be confusing salvation (which is the gift) and 'the call' which is the gospel call. Many Calvinist theologians have distinguished between the "outward call" and the "inward call". The outward call, for those making this distinction, is a universal offer of gospel salvation, the message of salvation preached to all the people. The inward call then being the 'call' to the elect that is irresistible.

If you don't believe that God has a bona fide offer of salvation to all mankind then you wouldn't seem to be in line with mainline Calvinism and this OP might not be for you.

Peace to you brother

 

[Paleouss]

I agree with what you have written. It is clear from scripture that God has given Satan rule over the earth for a time.

Silverhair. Blessings and thanks for you as God's vessel.

Not trying to step on your toes as I made some adjustments to what you had written to correct verse ref’s or to move a verse ref to the appropriate place as I see it.

Not stepping on toes at all. Thank you for the corrections and adjustments. Besides, it saves me the corrections latter.

Plus as you can see I expanded the Rev 20:5 to Rev 20:4-6 for a clearer picture.

I think this is a good expansion for clarity.

The Holy Scriptures says that the devil is the "ruler of this world" (John 14:30); the "prince of the power of the air" (Eph 2:2); the "whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one" (1Jn 5:19 1John 14:30); and this earthly kingdom would seem to be something that the devil has dominion and authority over, for he can offer it to Jesus (Matt 4:8-9). So now we have...

Thanks for the correction.

But each in his own order. "Christ the firstfruits" is first (1Co_15:20, 23 Cor 15:20,23 ), "then at his coming those who belong to Christ" (1Co_15:23, Rev_20:4-6), then there is the second resurrection who are not part of the first resurrection "who are judged according to their works" (Rev_20:12; Rev_20:5). For those of the second resurrection have not chosen faith and belief.

Again, thank you for the corrections.

Peace and grace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I was contemplating what would make a bona fide offer to the unbelieving. What do you think?…

Peace to you brothers

God is Omniscient. He knows everything before it occurs.

Is it a Bona Fide offer of salvation to instruct His followers to preach the Gospel to the ends of the earth, knowing beforehand who will accept and who will reject?

Peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

God is Omniscient. He knows everything before it occurs.

Is it a Bona Fide offer of salvation to instruct His followers to preach the Gospel to the ends of the earth, knowing beforehand who will accept and who will reject?

Peace to you

Bona Fide offer of salvation to all and most rejecting that offer does not alter the fact it was a Bona Fide offer.

Just as God foreknowing who would freely reject that offer does not alter that fact.

If God had determined who would trust in Him and who would reject Him it would then have made the offer of no effect. In fact it would be more of a cruel joke by God with Him knowing that the vast majority could not accept the offer as He had already determined that they could not do so.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

1. One must not be under some other dominion, power, or influence (power and dominion).

All of mankind is under a spiritual influence.

Your reply: "This I agree with."

2. I must be capable at some level of understanding what I am being offered (enlightenment, illumination).

(Eph 2:5 KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Being "dead in sins" prevents any understanding of a spiritual offer. He "quickened" "(enlightenment, illumination)" His elect.

3. I must be able to reject what I desire to reject and accept what I desire to accept (freedom).

A ''natural man" is spiritually dead and is controlled by satan. He has no spiritual freedom.

4. In every case, without fail, what is being offered is granted if the conditions are met.

The conditions for salvation is to agree with the Holy Spirit that "I" am a sinner and in need a savior.

5. In every case, without fail, the consequences of a rejection of the offer is “just”.

No idea how to respond to this statement.

No further comments.

 

[Paleouss]

God is Omniscient. He knows everything before it occurs.

Greetings canadyjd. Peace and hope to you and yours.

I tend to agree that God knows everything before it occurs. Unlike some of my fellow brothers, I do not think this negates a bona fide offer.

Is it a Bona Fide offer of salvation to instruct His followers to preach the Gospel to the ends of the earth, knowing beforehand who will accept and who will reject?

Yes, I would think that it is a component. Today, I am reminded of the wedding parable.

(Mat 22:9-10 NKJV) 9 'Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.' 10 "So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding [hall] was filled with guests.

In the wedding parable, the King invites all, everyone the servants see and come across, to the wedding. Now, there would seem to be an additional criteria for this universal offer of the King to be 'bona fide'. That being that whoever was invited, that means all, could actually go to the wedding.

But lets say one of the King's servants in the wedding parable come across a man at the side of the road. This man they came across was in chains, bound and staked to the ground. The Kings servants said, you are invited to the Kings wedding. And the man said, alas, I have been chained to the ground by the King's enemies and cannot move. If you would only release me from these chains I would gladly choose to honor the King and come to this wedding. But the servants just turned and went on leaving the man bound and chained to the ground.

In this scenario that I have altered and presented, is this a bona fide offer?

This altered parable is not unlike what Scripture tells us, imo. God does send out a universal invitation to all mankind. Christ did come and do the work to remove the chains in His Cosmic Triumph on the cross for all mankind (see post #29). But still, there are those unbelieving that will not come. But it's not because it's not a bona fide offer. It's because they rejected the bona fide invitation. Christ did all the work, they just need to come.

keep seeking God's truth (Prov 2)

 

[Paleouss]

Greetings Wesley. Thank you for providing your wisdom on the issue of the bona fide offer.

I previously wrote

2. I must be capable at some level of understanding what I am being offered (enlightenment, illumination).

Wesley replied...

(Eph 2:5 KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Being "dead in sins" prevents any understanding of a spiritual offer. He "quickened" "(enlightenment, illumination)" His elect.

I need to ask a couple of question, if you would allow, to understand if you are missing the purpose of the OP or if you hold certain views that are contrary to the OPs direction.

(a) Do you hold to the Calvinist belief that there is an 'outer call' and also an 'inner call'? (notice I'm using the word 'call').

(b) Do you believe that if God so chose, he could enlighten any non-elect He so chose. I underlined the word 'enlighten' to make sure we are not talking about actual salvation but more like invites (Matt 22:8-10) or “convicts the world of sin” (John 16:8).

(c) You wrote, "being dead in sins prevents any understanding of a spiritual offer". Are you saying that God makes no such offer? Or that God makes the offer, but it is simply not understood by the non-elect?

I didn't get any further into your post because I got caught up with this section.

Peace to you brother

 

[canadyjd]

Greetings canadyjd. Peace and hope to you and yours.

I tend to agree that God knows everything before it occurs. Unlike some of my fellow brothers, I do not think this negates a bona fide offer.

Yes, I would think that it is a component. Today, I am reminded of the wedding parable.

(Mat 22:9-10 NKJV) 9 'Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.' 10 "So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding [hall] was filled with guests.

In the wedding parable, the King invites all, everyone the servants see and come across, to the wedding. Now, there would seem to be an additional criteria for this universal offer of the King to be 'bona fide'. That being that whoever was invited, that means all, could actually go to the wedding.

But lets say one of the King's servants in the wedding parable come across a man at the side of the road. This man they came across was in chains, bound and staked to the ground. The Kings servants said, you are invited to the Kings wedding. And the man said, alas, I have been chained to the ground by the King's enemies and cannot move. If you would only release me from these chains I would gladly choose to honor the King and come to this wedding. But the servants just turned and went on leaving the man bound and chained to the ground.

In this scenario that I have altered and presented, is this a bona fide offer?

This altered parable is not unlike what Scripture tells us, imo. God does send out a universal invitation to all mankind. Christ did come and do the work to remove the chains in His Cosmic Triumph on the cross for all mankind (see post #29). But still, there are those unbelieving that will not come. But it's not because it's not a bona fide offer. It's because they rejected the bona fide invitation. Christ did all the work, they just need to come.

keep seeking God's truth (Prov 2)

In your parable, the man staked to the ground and in chains has no desire to change his condition, regardless of the King’s offer.

He has already rejected the king, which is why he is in chains.

When God Holy Spirit releases the man from his chains, he recognizes the estate he was in and the value of the King’s offer and responds with faith.

Mankind is not in a “neutral” condition, able to accept or reject the offer. God’s revelation of Himself has already been rejected by every person on the planet.

Unless God intervenes through the power of God Hoky Spirit, all remain incapable of responding with faith to the gospel call.

Peace to you