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What do Monergism and Synergism mean and why are they important?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed, Oct 13, 2017.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    oooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggiiiiiissssmm
     
    #21 JonC, Oct 13, 2017
  2. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    And therein lies the contention behind this particular label. It is a misrepresentation (at least, the way that the OP stated it) of what people believe.

    I am not against labels at all. I am advocating for the disuse of "rejected labels". My very screen name is a label. If someone wanted to label me as a Sapper, I'd be all for that. But if they labeled me as a Ranger, I'd reject that. And if they insisted on that label, then I'd know that they didn't want any serious discussion of my occupation in the military.

    I will not attempt to answer for Rev, as I don't know his mind. But for me, the rejection of the label stems from the post where Reformed said that Synergists believe that God CANNOT save man without man's cooperation. I do not personally know of anyone who believes that.

    Now, I know a lot of people who believe that God CHOSE to not save man without man's accepting of the gift of salvation. Now, if you wish to call that cooperation and use that as the definition of Synergism, I'd accept that label. But trying to use a label with a wrong definition as Reformed did, and I'll reject it.
     
    #22 Sapper Woody, Oct 13, 2017
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  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Dunno, guess it's it's a quirk of mine.


    HankD
     
    #23 HankD, Oct 13, 2017
  4. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Yep. Imagine if we had to take 15 words to describe the word "dentist" every time we discuss one.
     
    #24 Reformed, Oct 13, 2017
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I can't tell if this is just juvenile sarcasm or if you really do not understand this issue.
     
    #25 Revmitchell, Oct 13, 2017
  6. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    [/QUOTE]

    I can't even respond to you point-by-point anymore because I no longer take you seriously.
     
    #26 Reformed, Oct 13, 2017
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Your definitions are spot on theological sense of these two terms.

    Basically, it comes down to just how do we view ourselves after the fall, as that will determine if we can assist God in salvation or not!
     
    #27 Yeshua1, Oct 13, 2017
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We have to define the theological wording used, or else we end up as the Cultists do, in totally redefining Christianity!
     
    #28 Yeshua1, Oct 13, 2017
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Dentist : A medical professional who has a medical degree and practitioners license who can legally be addressed as "doctor" however is not licensed to practice medicine as a "general practitioner".

    Oops - that was more than 15 words :)

    HankD
     
    #29 HankD, Oct 13, 2017
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I disagree. It is a well established theological term with a very specific meaning.

    I disagree that is what he meant. I answered it privately, but will repost it here.
    So, it seems to me that lost man is most uncooperative. :)
     
    #30 TCassidy, Oct 13, 2017
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  11. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I challenge those who believe that God first draws the individual, and then the individual has to choose of their own free will whether to accept or reject the gospel [like that long-winded attempt to avoid using a label?] to consider the theological implications of their belief. For instance "those who believe that God first draws the individual, and then the individual has to choose of their own free will whether to accept or reject the gospel" believe that man has to believe of his own free will to accept the offer of salvation. God will not force His will on the sinner. I have not met anyone from the "those who believe that God first draws the individual, and then the individual has to choose of their own free will whether to accept or reject the gospel" camp who rejects the need for the sinner to believe of His own free will or that God will not assault the human will. Therefore, God, by Himself, cannot save anyone. The individual MUST choose to believe before they are regenerated. I don't care whether you identify as a Monergist, Synergist, Calvinist, Arminian, or a Shih Tzu, If God is not capable of regenerating the individual without any participation by the individual, then another entity besides God must participate in regeneration. Ergo, under this view regeneration is a cooperative effort. God draws, the individual responds by either believing or not. That is a synergistic transaction, a.k.a. Synergism. It doesn't matter whether you like the term or not. Just using the dictionary definition of Synergism, "those who believe that God first draws the individual, and then the individual has to choose of their own free will whether to accept or reject the gospel" MUST believe the individual plays a role in regeneration, without with regeneration is impossible.

    Monergists believe in something termed the effectual call. Those whom God calls He makes able to believe through regeneration. Once regeneration (i.e. the new birth) takes place, the will has been liberated from sin. The Individual under this belief system then is able freely to believe because the will has been liberated. According to this view, regeneration is a sole divine act with no participation by the one being regenerated. This a textbook definition of Monergism.

    Now, if you reject these descriptions and the terms theologians use to describe them, well, to quote one of my favorite movies, "get used to disappointment". This thread is not really meant to debate Synergism vs. Monergism, but to define their terms. Once we really know what others believe, we are able to have better discussions.
     
    #31 Reformed, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Another logical fallacy of the undistributed middle. It is not "either juvenile sarcasm" or "not understand the issue."
     
    #32 TCassidy, Oct 13, 2017
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  13. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    ROFL
     
    #33 Reformed, Oct 13, 2017
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I can't even respond to you point-by-point anymore because I no longer take you seriously.[/QUOTE]

    I guess you win then don't you.
     
    #34 Revmitchell, Oct 13, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Okay. I will stand and declare, I am a Monergist. My salvation is All Of God and none of me. I, like Paul, can loudly proclaim, "In me . . . dwells no good thing." No desire to know God. No desire to believe God. No desire to obey God. But God, by His Amazing Grace, used the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to draw a rebellious sinner to Himself, and give him a new heart of faith that now desires to know Him, to believe Him, to obey Him.

    All of God. None of me. To God, and God alone, be the Glory!
     
    #35 TCassidy, Oct 13, 2017
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  16. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    How else do you describe, according to the free will position, God's refusal to save those who refuse the free gift of eternal life? Most free willers believe in the general call. God calls sinners to repent and believe. We know that not all sinners will believe, right? How many free will devotees do you know who believe that God will sovereignly regenerate an unbelieving sinner against their will? So, according to the free will position, God will not violate individual free will. God places a limit on Himself by doing so. Man MUST believe BEFORE he is regenerated. Any free willer who believes God can regenerate a person, and then that person can still accept or reject the gospel is confused.

    Now, go ahead and reject that explanation, but I stand by it unapologetically.
     
    #36 Reformed, Oct 13, 2017
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  17. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    This is not about winning. You refused ad infinitum, ad nauseaum to own your own position. You obfuscate, misdirect, play the martyr, and ask for threads to be closed when you can't get your way. You look like a tool when you play this game, that's why I can't take you seriously. I'm more than happy to engage with people who disagree with me; even if they do so vigorously, so long as they're honest about what they believe.

    P.S. Edited to correct typos.
     
    #37 Reformed, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Uh no this is what you do.

    Yes I do bring up the personal attacks. More obfuscation by you when you do that.

    See here is the thing, Prove this was my motivation. Did I say this was the reason why? You assign motives and meaning to the words and actions of others you cannot possibly know. You, in fact do not know why I wanted my thread closed because you never asked me. It is the one single way you can know.

    You cannot define for me or anyone else terms or doctrine based on your personal and chosen terms. I am not going to be defined by your presuppositions nor your terms.

    This is the personal attack I am talking about.

    That is on you. My life will carry on without you.

    I have not been dishonest about anything. Again personal attack.
     
    #38 Revmitchell, Oct 13, 2017
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Hopefully all of them. After all, this is what happened to John the Baptist and Saul/Paul. I could make a case that this also happened to Mary, mother of Jesus.

    Correction. According to your description of the free will position.

    Yes, yes. John 20:31. Check.
    Ephesians 1:13. Got it.

    Anybody that believes this is confused, never mind free willer or not.
     
    #39 InTheLight, Oct 13, 2017
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    His real objection to a label is when his error is exposed he can claim the label does not really reflect his view, but he never clarifies it because he knows his error will be manifest.
    if someone desires truth...they should stand and own their position openly. If it cannot be defended...abandon it.
     
    #40 Iconoclast, Oct 13, 2017
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