What Do These Passages Teach?

[Dave G]

In that verse, what happens first?

" who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, " ( 2 Timothy 1:9 )

First He saved us, then He called us with an holy "calling".
That calling was given to us, as His sheep, before world began.

This fit's perfectly with John 10:26-27, Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:29-30, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and Psalms 65:4 to name a few.

I'm glad you used Ephesians. Look at verse 1. Paul is NOT writing to ALL the believers in this encyclical. He is specifically writing to faithful believers. There's a difference between saved and saved yet faithful to Christ Jesus. Paul makes that distinction right off the bat in verse 1. If you're a believer but you're not faithful, Paul's not talking to you. Faithful believers after they were saved=in Him, in Whom, etc. All the predestinations apply to those believers who choose to be faithful, who choose to be so after they are saved. THEY are the "in Him" ones to whom Paul is speaking. Since the book was originally written first to the Laodiceans, they definitely did not have many faithful in Christ Jesus. That's pretty obvious in Revelation 3:14-20. Saved but not faithful and therefore not In Him.

Thanks for the reply, Larry.
Here I'm seeing that to you, a person is not "in Christ", that is, in the spiritual body of Christ, unless they are both saved and faithful, which brings this to my mind:

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful." ( Revelation 17:14 ).

The reality of it is that, according to the Scriptures, anyone who is truly saved is "in Him", and they are faithful.
They are "the called" according to His purpose ( Romans 8:28 ).

With that said, I can see that our understandings of how salvation is accomplished are very nearly 180 degrees out from each other.
Therefore, I see little reason to discuss things further, as we cannot seem to reach an agreement with what has been presented thus far, and with what the words actually say.

I wish you well, sir, and may God bless you in many ways.

 

[Dave G]

And why are they per Revelation 20:15 lost?

For rejecting Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord

Because they are not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

" The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is." ( Revelation 17:8 ).

 

[37818]

your Christology is clearly Subordinationism and therefore heretical.

There is no subotdination in the Deity of God the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit in being the One and the same LORD* God. *YHWH

 

[SavedByGrace]

Because they are not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

They can't be as they are unsaved

 

[Dave G]

They can't be as they are unsaved

I agree.
As I see it, they were never written in the Book of Life for Christ to save them.

It's His book...
That's why it's called the Book of Life of the Lamb ( slain from the foundation of the world ), or "the Lamb's Book of Life" ( Revelation 13:8, Revelation 21:27 ), and He only saves those that were given to Him by His Father ( John 17:2 ), not the ones that were not written in His Book.

That's why He will tell them, "I never knew you" ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).

 

[37818]

this thread will close soon, start a new one. your 2 passages do NOT support your "theory"!

Oh, what the word of God teacheis theory. You have just refused to prove your view.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Oh, what the word of God teacheis theory. You have just refused to prove your view.

your mind is closed to Truth!

 

[37818]

If the second person of the Trinity was the Son in eternity past, who was the mother?

God the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit are the One and the same God. They have no beginning. God has no beginning.

 

[37818]

your mind is closed to Truth!

Wow. You are a false accuser.

Ppesent the a specific and the one Scripture. You have never done.

 

[Larry the Logger]

"
"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful." ( Revelation 17:14 ).

The ones who are WITH the Lord to do battle at Armageddon are believers who are faithful in this present life. Do you think the Lord is going to go into battle with a bunch of recruits? That's why they're called and chosen, not because they were saved. There are some believers who won't be coming with the Lord in battle. They will be in the rear with the gear scooping up horse droppings because they're not qualified to go into battle WITH Him.

With that said, it appears that it's time for me to take my leave of this thread

Indeed. The Calvinism DO LOOP is going to result in nothing but both of us remaining stuck in it. I will never be one, ever.

I wish you well, sir, and may God bless you in many ways.

Right back at you.