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What Do These Passages Teach?

SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
He, and the Holy Spirit, wants us to focus on the truth that we cannot do anything apart from the empowering of and by the Holy Spirit Himself!
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the Greek verb, κατεργαζομαι, is here used in the "middle voice", showing that we have to make the effort to "work out our salvation", but doing what is right with the Lord!
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
He, and the Holy Spirit, wants us to focus on the truth that we cannot do anything apart from the empowering of and by the Holy Spirit Himself!
Click to expand...

so, what of this verse?

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17)
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
the Greek verb, κατεργαζομαι, is here used in the "middle voice", showing that we have to make the effort to "work out our salvation", but doing what is right with the Lord!
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Yes, as that would be where we are to submit to the Spirit and make no provision for the flesh command!
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
so, what of this verse?

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17)
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Would see that as the Lord bring physical death to one of his own as final form of Chastisement for sinning!
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
He limited Himself while here, and was still fully God, but now has his fully glory restored by the Father, as per John 17!
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He only changed the how of His glory not that He was God's glory, even as the son of man, John 3:13 KJV, even on the cross, Hebrews 1:3.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
37818 said:
He only changed the how of His glory not that He was God's glory, even as the son of man, John 3:13 KJV, even on the cross, Hebrews 1:3.
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No longer had any limitations after the resurrection and ascension!
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
No longer had any limitations after the resurrection and ascension!
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He did not cease His limitations as He had before His incarnation. He continues to be the Word, John 1:2. He did not cease being the Son, Mark 13:32.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
now go on to chapter 7, and read of Paul's post conversion struggels with sin!
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Sure, then read Romans 8 and 9, which tell us there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ as well as who those are who are in Christ.

You see, all scripture is important so we don't misunderstand verses and comprehend context.
 
Larry the Logger

Larry the Logger

Member
Dave G said:
He "calls", and we come to His Son...
Because we are His sheep.
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He calls because we are already His sheep, just like He did with Israel in the OT and just like Jesus did to Israel during His earthly ministry. Matthew 15:21-28. Lost sheep doesn't mean unsaved. Lost sheep means unfaithful.

Dave G said:
To me, the Lord only outwardly convicts those that will never believe;
While He inwardly convicts those that He has foreknown and chosen.
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The Holy Spirit's job is to convict the entire world of sin, righteousness and judgment, both believers and unbelievers. HOW He does that is probably quite different with each individual. I see no distinction between outwardly and inwardly.

Dave G said:
Take a look at Acts of the Apostles 16:14.
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Okay, what do you think those decrees, those dogmas, Paul left in the cities as he passed through, were about? Who did Paul leave those decrees with? Acts 16:3

Dave G said:
But is it not what Psalms 65:4 says?
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If you think God makes us believe in Him because He decided who would and who would not believe in Him from eternity past, then Psalm 65:4, out of context means we had no part in His decision. However, if you think that, you also have to think that every human being ever born, "all flesh" comes to God per Psalm 65:2. I believe neither because Psalm 65:1 sets up the context for the entire Psalm.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
but chapter 7 is real and cannot be overlooked or dismissed. What did Paul mean by "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"? (Philippians 2:12) κατεργάζομαι, "to perform, accomplish, achieve"
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Wow, you have been shown your error in the two original passages. You have been shown how Paul answers Romans 7 with Romans 8 and 9. Now you desperately go to Philippians 2.

So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

~ Philippians 2:1-13

What are the therefore's there for? Make the connections.

The fear and trembling is not because a person can lose their salvation. Paul has told us that there is encouragement in Christ. We draw out what our salvation means, with fear and trembling, because we are in the presence of the holy God who created all things. It is an awesome thing to be in the presence of God. Look at Isaiah's response:

Isaiah 6:1-7
In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!” And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!” Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar. And he touched my mouth and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for.”

We work out that salvation, which God has gloriously accomplished, with genuine fear and trembling, precisely because we are in the holy presence of God.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AustinC said:
Wow, you have been shown your error in the two original passages. You have been shown how Paul answers Romans 7 with Romans 8 and 9. Now you desperately go to Philippians 2.

So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

~ Philippians 2:1-13

What are the therefore's there for? Make the connections.

The fear and trembling is not because a person can lose there salvation. Paul has told us that there is encouragement in Christ. We draw out what our salvation means, with fear and trembling, because we are in the presence of the holy God who created all things. It is an awesome thing to be in the presence of God. Look at Isaiah's response:

Isaiah 6:1-7
In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!” And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!” Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar. And he touched my mouth and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for.”

We work out that salvation, which God has gloriously accomplished, with genuine fear and trembling, precisely because we are in the holy presence of God.
Click to expand...
We have proper awe and respect towards He who died for us and who now saved us!
 
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