Featured What Do These Passages Teach?

Larry,
Does God decide who to save based on a "set of requirements", or does He save based on His own purposes and grace... given to His people before the world began ( 2 Timothy 1:9 )?
Please see Titus 3:5-7.

I agree.
In Revelation 3:20, Jesus is speaking to believers...His sheep...or at least those who profess to be His.

I agree.
Believers do, as that is who I see the entire book of Romans being written to.

I'm sorry, sir, but I disagree.

According to this, which came first...belief, or God's choosing someone in Christ, before the world began?

"3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." ( Ephesians 1:3-14 ).

Here's what I see...
God first chose someone "in Christ" before the world began.
Then, in time, those who believe ( the ones that were chosen ) are then sealed with the Holy Ghost which is the "earnest" of their downpayment.

 

Why not? Acts of the Apostles 1:7, ". . . the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." The Son continues not to be the Father.

 

I agree with the underlined, sir.
I also understand that God does not do the responding for us, as His people, which in other places are called "the elect ( chosen )".

He "calls", and we come to His Son...
Because we are His sheep.

Again I agree...
To a certain extent.

To me, the Lord only outwardly convicts those that will never believe;
While He inwardly convicts those that He has foreknown and chosen.

Take a look at Acts of the Apostles 16:14.

But is it not what Psalms 65:4 says?

 

Jesus though now has back fully restored glory, which means no more limitations on Him!

 

@Larry the Logger :

Larry, one more question before I go...
If you don't mind indulging my curiosity, what do you see these saying?

" according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." ( Ephesians 1:4-6 ).

" For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." ( Ephesians 2:10 ).

" And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:65 ).

" He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:47 ).

" But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand." ( John 10:26-28 ).

" as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him." ( John 17:2 ).

" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 )

" For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." ( Romans 8:29-30 ).

 

He was always the Son before His incarnation, John 1:2, Mark 13:32. He was always the Creator and the true light, John 1:9-10, even on the cross Hebrews 1:3.

 

He limited Himself while here, and was still fully God, but now has his fully glory restored by the Father, as per John 17!

 

God knew what Abraham would decide to do, and he knew that Sodom would be destroyed, as note that Abraham was the one that stopped the number of "good people" required to save the city, not God!

 

Yes, but paul would have us read how to have the victory over sin in Chapters 8!

 

In that verse, what happens first?

It proves my point but not if you think believing in Christ as an independent volitional decision on our part is "works of righteousness which we have done."

Please see Ephesians 2:8,9 along with Acts 16:31.

Clearly.

I'm glad you used Ephesians. Look at verse 1. Paul is NOT writing to ALL the believers in this encyclical. He is specifically writing to faithful believers. There's a difference between saved and saved yet faithful to Christ Jesus. Paul makes that distinction right off the bat in verse 1. If you're a believer but you're not faithful, Paul's not talking to you. Faithful believers after they were saved=in Him, in Whom, etc. All the predestinations apply to those believers who choose to be faithful, who choose to be so after they are saved. THEY are the "in Him" ones to whom Paul is speaking. Since the book was originally written first to the Laodiceans, they definitely did not have many faithful in Christ Jesus. That's pretty obvious in Revelation 3:14-20. Saved but not faithful and therefore not In Him.

 

The Lord inspired the Bible down to language that we can understand, as He "dumbed it down: for our benefit!

 

The Son and the Father are the same YHWH but not the same person. Not the same persons. John 1:18, KJV, ASV.

 

He, and the Holy Spirit, wants us to focus on the truth that we cannot do anything apart from the empowering of and by the Holy Spirit Himself!