What do you do with Rick Warren?

I agree.
It certainly in biblical to meet people where they are, and the bible peoples each preached differently from each other, so, so far nothing unbiblical.

You should check in to whether they are accurate. I don't know myself, but would want to be for sure. Especially before I tell it to everyone else.

After reading some of it, I found that it seems their biggest complaints were nontraditionalism. (is that a word, it is now), and not a devience from scriptural truths of salvation.

 

Given that you don't check the accuray of "those folks" claims by going to the surce, it is just as likely you've been deceived all these years, or, far more likely, when they've been right, it's been for the wrong reasons.

But I am glad to see you won't post on this anymore. Propaganda has no place in a discussion of this type.

Now about Warren's methods. I think Rev. G is wise is pointing out that you can't take it en toto without criticism. But there is a lot to learn there.

Katie is likewise corect in that his methods are non-traditional. He advocates losing jargon and associated ideas and methods of communicating the gospel. We may look at them as gospel truth, but they're not.

I believe Warren's greatest contribution is in his means of assimilating people into biblical ministry. He does good job of creating a true priesthood of all believers.

 

A couple of questions here:

1) Can you direct me to those texts that state that worship is the ULTIMATE purpose of the church? I am just curious here. I agree worship is a purpose (and probably the primary purpose), but I hear this statement tossed out a lot but rarely find biblical support offered for the proposition. I am looking here for texts that state that worship is primary over other obvious purposes of the church (such as evangelism and discipleship).

2) Can you clarify what you mean by his methodology undermines his statements on worship?

 

Granny:

Are you implying this church is not going to be changing their name to Fundamental Community Church any time soon? Or perhaps Our Way is the Only Way Fellowship? Or maybe Legalism Community Church? Or how about "Where are those denominational titles found in the NT" Church?

Just having some fun. I breezed through the article and found the typical "if you are operating outside my fundamentalist box you are wrong" arguments used to justify all sorts of legalism.

As a matter of fact, I read nothing in the article that made me think "wow, Saddleback is operating outside biblical parameters."

Bottom line: if one does not prefer the methods Rick Warren employs, use your own and then we will come to your conference and learn how God used your methods to build a church.

 

I have read Rick Warren's book about the purpose driven church and I enjoyed it. I really like his ideas. I have also heard him preach in person before.

 

There is no argument, Rick Warren has everyones attention it seems.

Some things that bother me:

1) He is of an SBC background, why is he ashamed to be called a Baptist. I am an Independent Baptist and have been for over 15 years. I am not ashamed of it!

2) He advocates rock music and such like within the church. That bothers me.

When Criswell endorsed him, he was probably senile!

 

SBCbyGRACE:
I'm starting a new thread for your questions (General Discussions).
Rev. G

[ October 07, 2002, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: Rev. G ]

 

PtheW:

After reading all you have said against Warren, I still fail to see where he has compromised the gospel in any way. Choosing to present the gospel in a relevant fashion and thru relevant means does not mean that the integrity of the message has been sacrificed. You may disagree with his style, methodology, dress, music preferences, church growth principles, ministry philosophy, etc, but that makes him no less of a threat to the gospel than you.

Your rantings and ravings amount to personal preferences. So until you have some substantive, biblically supported, legitimate criticisms of Warren, perhaps it is best to simply say you disagree with the way he chooses to do ministry.

In the end, you have the right to choose how to do ministry and so does Warren. And as long as neither violates clear biblical principles, both are equally legitimate.

If your username reflects your desires in preaching, I would encourage you to refrain from majoring on the minor by "preaching against" his type and focusing upon the essentials of how to know and serve Christ.

I will await any legitimate violation of biblical principle complaints you may have. Until then ...

 

If the gospel is being preached and people are being sved, there is only the problem of personal opinon and worship style preference. Which isn't biblical itself.

 

PTW...You say that Warren is more interested in numbers than faithfulness. That depends on your idea of faithfulness. If you are familiar with the concepts in Purpose Driven Church, you know that one of the five purposes given is "Discipleship". The program used to systematically disciple, equip, and integrate new believers into the body and ministry of the church is far more advanced than most churches I am aware of.

Many churches (if they see anyone saved) seem to close their eyes and hope the person "sticks". This is producing the shallow Christians, not pastors like Warren who desire for people to reach their full potential for God.

CC

 

By all means, let's ignore the meeds of the unsaved. Let's enforce dress codes for everyoine who wants to atttend a service. If they get in, let's ensure that the experience is totally a cross cultural one, and let them leave feling that they don't belong.

 

Grrrrrr.



Guys, get a grip.

1.) What IS our purpose here? I think Warren does well to maintain the five purposes.

2.) Is your church, Warrenite or not, doing what it fully needs to do biblically? I doubt it.

 

I don't feel it is about ignoring the needs of anyone. It is more about putting God in the place of prime importance in our lives as individuals and as the body of Christ. We show God as being of supreme importance to us by worshiping Him. The worship of God is to be the priority of not only the individual Christian, but also, of the church as a whole.

Bruce Leafblad has written an article entitled, "Recovering the Priority of God", in which he deals with this issue. Here are a few excerpts from it:

Soli Deo Gloria,
Chris

[ October 11, 2002, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Music Man ]

 

I agree, Saggy. This is pitiful.