What do you normally do when a Jehovah Witness knocks on your door?

[Beth]

very smart

The problem today is that we have too many who claim to be Christians and go to church every Sunday, yet live and share their faith like practical atheists.

I wonder what might happen if the Christians were out knocking on doors rather than answering their doors instead?

Those cults folks have gotten "smart" now. They go out on Sunday while the Christians are at church. According to a select few, the Christians no longer have to worry about "disobedience" because they are no longer confronted with having to answer their door. I am sure the cults like that.

Yes, I agree, they have gotten VERY smart!

When the JWs come by, I noticed they are quite sly about inferring that 1. we follow men's teachings, 2. we don't put importance on works, and 3. we read the wrong Bible.

They are floored when we dispute all three, and we discuss the Greek with them....they just don't know what to say.

In a cult, you are indoctrinated to believe that everyone else has it wrong...only you have the gnosis, that special knowledge that sets you apart.

Tell you a story from the UK. We used to work with a man who does quite a bit of evangelizing in the UK, Israel and parts of the US. With a Jewish background, he speaks Hebrew very well.

He always keeps a stash of old Watchtowers under his living room chair.

When they come in, he invites them in to sit. While they sit, he tells them he has a question for them...what do they think of what God says about false prophets in Deuteronomy 18. The JWs of course, engage quite freely in the conversation, and take on the place of teacher, informing Jacob that God tells us to have no part of them...if what they prophesy does not come to pass, to have no part of them.

As soon as they get to this point of discussion, Jacob pulls out old Watchtowers, and goes headline by headline, false prophesy by false prophesy...he then confronts them, and asks they if they are going to follow Scripture and part from false prophets!

Jacob calls that technique, metaphorically, cutting off Goliath's head with his own sword!

 

[D28guy]

Matt,

"<Pulls up chair and eats popcorn> It's both sad and entertaining to watch you sola Scripturists tear strips off each other; talk about 'Battle of the Proof Texts'!"

Who is tearing strips off each other?

This is as healthy as can be, and its completly scriptural. No religious hierarchial gestapo is commanding us what we must believe.

As brothers, we are turning to the scriptures and the scriptures alone as our truth standard. Both sides are doing that...just as God instructs us to do. Only good comes from it....Praise God!

God bless,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

Beth,

"We used to work with a man who does quite a bit of evangelizing in the UK, Israel and parts of the US. With a Jewish background, he speaks Hebrew very well.

He always keeps a stash of old Watchtowers under his living room chair.

When they come in, he invites them in to sit. While they sit, he tells them he has a question for them...what do they think of what God says about false prophets in Deuteronomy 18. The JWs of course, engage quite freely in the conversation, and take on the place of teacher, informing Jacob that God tells us to have no part of them...if what they prophesy does not come to pass, to have no part of them.

As soon as they get to this point of discussion, Jacob pulls out old Watchtowers, and goes headline by headline, false prophesy by false prophesy...he then confronts them, and asks they if they are going to follow Scripture and part from false prophets!

Jacob calls that technique, metaphorically, cutting off Goliath's head with his own sword!"

Thats a wonderful! :thumbs: Thanks for sharing!

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

[Matt Black]

Matt,



Who is tearing strips off each other?

This is as healthy as can be, and its completly scriptural. No religious hierarchial gestapo is commanding us what we must believe.

As brothers, we are turning to the scriptures and the scriptures alone as our truth standard. Both sides are doing that...just as God instructs us to do. Only good comes from it....Praise God!

God bless,

Mike

I can't see how any good can come of it; all I see is individuals vigorously asserting that they're own private interpretation of Scripture is the gospel truth and accusing others of being disobedient to 'God's word'. I don't see anything 'brotherly' in that, at all. In fact, quite the opposite. It was violent spats like this which convinced me that sola Scriptura was heinously wrong as a doctrine in the first place; thanks for confirming my belief in that regard 100%

 

[D28guy]

Matt,

"I can't see how any good can come of it;..."

I'm sorry to hear that.

"all I see is individuals vigorously asserting that they're own private interpretation of Scripture is the gospel truth and accusing others of being disobedient to 'God's word'."

God anoints the proclaiming of His word. God uses it to open peoples eyes. Its a very healthy thing. Thats whey there is such and emphasis on sola scriptura in the scriptures.

"I don't see anything 'brotherly' in that, at all. In fact, quite the opposite."

Thats a shame.

"It was violent spats like this which convinced me that sola Scriptura was heinously wrong as a doctrine in the first place;"

Well, all you have to do is compare the fruit from both sides, Matt.

On the evangelical sola scriptura side, we have 2000 years of groups who practice sola scriptura.

On the other side, we have 2000 years of the Roman Catholic Cult, the "Orthodox" groups, and for a shorter period of time liberal protestantism.

There is absolutly nothing on the evangelical side that even comes remotely close to the literal cess pool of blasphemy, idolatry, heresy and goddess worship that exists on the RCC/EOC/Liberal side.

Thanks for confirming my belief in that regard 100%

I would strongly recommend that you re-consider your views.

God bless,

Mike

 

[Matt Black]

When the evidence and the fruits change, then I'll reconsider. But I rather fear that the Devil himself will be skating to work accompanied by a fly-past featuring porcine aviators when that happens judging by the state of this thread....

 

[gb93433]

God anoints the proclaiming of His word. God uses it to open peoples eyes. Its a very healthy thing. Thats whey there is such and emphasis on sola scriptura in the scriptures.

Well, all you have to do is compare the fruit from both sides, Matt.

On the evangelical sola scriptura side, we have 2000 years of groups who practice sola scriptura.

On the other side, we have 2000 years of the Roman Catholic Cult, the "Orthodox" groups, and for a shorter period of time liberal protestantism.

I think we as a church are there today. Too many relgious folks are telling themselves how right they are and how wrong others are while they live like practical atheists. They claim to have right doctrine but live like practical atheists. How many are making disciples and sharing their faith. James teaches that if one is not a doer of the word that person is deluded. Just think how many have been misled to believe that a Bible study or going to church is discipleship. So many things are named as discipleship when they are not. They are simply program churches treating people as those the church has a slot that needs to be filled rather than training people to use their gifts to serve peope and train others.

 

[convicted1]

Re: Jehovah's witness

My uncle told me one time(years ago, btw) that two JW's came to his house and he let them in. They began studying scriptures. He showed them where they were wrong, and they began to ask him questions, and they seemed very interetsed in what he presented them. Did they leave his house and leave the JW's? He doesn't know, but they and God know what they did. The reason why it's really not wrong to allow them into the house, is because they can be shown the truth, the truth shall set you free. The Word is either a witness, or a condemner(sp?).

BTW, Tali, you did A.O.K.!!!!:thumbs: :thumbs:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

My uncle told me one time(years ago, btw) that two JW's came to his house and he let them in. They began studying scriptures. He showed them where they were wrong, and they began to ask him questions, and they seemed very interetsed in what he presented them. Did they leave his house and leave the JW's? He doesn't know, but they and God know what they did. The reason why it's really not wrong to allow them into the house, is because they can be shown the truth, the truth shall set you free. The Word is either a witness, or a condemner(sp?).

BTW, Tali, you did A.O.K.!!!!:thumbs: :thumbs:

Then you are saying God was wrong when He said "neither invite them into your house."

Shame.

The fact that God's Word says that we are not to let them in should be enough for us to not even make such statements as "it's not wrong to let them in."

God said don't do it, He meant it.

 

[webdog]

Yes, I agree, they have gotten VERY smart!

When the JWs come by, I noticed they are quite sly about inferring that 1. we follow men's teachings, 2. we don't put importance on works, and 3. we read the wrong Bible.

They are floored when we dispute all three, and we discuss the Greek with them....they just don't know what to say.

In a cult, you are indoctrinated to believe that everyone else has it wrong...only you have the gnosis, that special knowledge that sets you apart.

Tell you a story from the UK. We used to work with a man who does quite a bit of evangelizing in the UK, Israel and parts of the US. With a Jewish background, he speaks Hebrew very well.

He always keeps a stash of old Watchtowers under his living room chair.

When they come in, he invites them in to sit. While they sit, he tells them he has a question for them...what do they think of what God says about false prophets in Deuteronomy 18. The JWs of course, engage quite freely in the conversation, and take on the place of teacher, informing Jacob that God tells us to have no part of them...if what they prophesy does not come to pass, to have no part of them.

As soon as they get to this point of discussion, Jacob pulls out old Watchtowers, and goes headline by headline, false prophesy by false prophesy...he then confronts them, and asks they if they are going to follow Scripture and part from false prophets!

Jacob calls that technique, metaphorically, cutting off Goliath's head with his own sword!

What a great ministry / evangelism idea! You should have him color copy the headlines of the back issues of Watchtower, bind them and distribute to believers to use as a witnessing tool for JW. They can even be shrunk and put into tract form...or posted to a website started for just that purpose.

 

[gb93433]

Then you are saying God was wrong when He said "neither invite them into your house."

Shame.

The fact that God's Word says that we are not to let them in should be enough for us to not even make such statements as "it's not wrong to let them in."

God said don't do it, He meant it.

Again just another opinion. You are not God's word neither do I see that you are any more than one who mimics Darbyism. You have not given any documentation to support your opinion. When will you cite at least one thing from history or any credible historical evidence to support your view.

Certainly if you have studied the historical context and believe you are right as a result then you could easily provide your sources of information.

I am waiting as are so many others for you to provide some credible evidence that is more than just your opinion.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Again just another opinion. You are not God's word neither do I see that you are any more than one who mimics Darbyism. You have not given any documentation to support your opinion. When will you cite at least one thing from history or any credible historical evidence to support your view.

Certainly if uou have studied the historical context and believe you are right as a result then you could easily provide your sources of information.

I am waiting as are so many others for you to provide some credible evidence that is more than just your opinion.

The Bible is the only documentation we need concerning false teachers and not letting them in one's house.

Sorry you can't understand the clear written Word of God.

The Greek for house in 2 John is not translated as road, tree, animal, or anything else other than 'house.' To say it is not someone's residence and say God allows one to invite false prophets into one's home is to teach contrary to God's Holy Word.

 

[gb93433]

The Bible is the only documentation we need concerning false teachers and not letting them in one's house.

Sorry you can't understand the clear written Word of God.

The Way Some Interpret Scripture​

The ignorance displayed is stunning. What can you learn about people by selectively taking passages from their writings and putting a strange spin on them? Not much, but let's try it: according to one religion, a true adherent must speak in tongues and take up serpents (1). Unruly or rebellious children must be put to death (2), as must Jews (3) and anyone who does simple chores on the Sabbath (4). Further, followers of this faith must hate their families and abandon them (5), and you must follow all orders from the government, since rulers are placed over you by this religion's god (6). Slavery is permitted (7). If you have enemies, you are ordered to love them, kill them, accommodate them, and send them to hell to burn for all eternity (8). This religion's god sent a savior __ to cause humanity strife and grief (9). Followers should not pray in public, such as in school (10), and abortion is OK since a fetus is not a living human until it takes its first breath (11). After death, you may not retain your spirit __ sorry (12).

Did you guess the religion? You probably did __ it's Mitch in Kentucky's religion: Christianity, and all of these things are from the Bible. (Remember, I said this is what someone who selectively takes passages and puts a "strange spin on them" could conclude. Clear?)

The references:

1. Mark 16:16_18
2. Deuteronomy 21:20_21
3. Luke 19:27
4. Exodus 35:2
5. Luke 14:26, Matthew 10:35_36 and Matthew 19:29
6. Romans 13:1_7, 2Peter 2:10, Matthew 22:17_21, Mark 12:17, Luke 20:25
7. Eph 6:5, Col 3:22
8. Matthew 5:44, Luke 19:27, Matthew 5:39_45, Mark 9:43_48, Mark 11:13_14, 20
9. Luke 12:51_53, Matthew 10:34
10. Matthew 6:5_6
11. Geneses 2:7
12. Eccles 8:8

Taken from http://www.thisistrue.com/antichrist.html

Again I asked for some historical documentation. Do you have none? If you have studied well you would be able to provide unquestionable documentation.

 

[gb93433]

The Bible is the only documentation we need concerning false teachers and not letting them in one's house.

Sorry you can't understand the clear written Word of God.

Do you speak in new tongues and pick up serpents too?

Mk. 16:17, 18, "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I do, in fact, speak in a new tongue. I used to curse, I no longer do. I used to say JW's, Mormon's, and other such false teachers were harmless. I don't say that anymore.

Yes, I speak in new tongues.

As to picking up serpents, I have in the past when working in the yard run across snakes and picked them up and moved them if I needed to be in the place they were.

I am sure there are others who have too.

 

[gb93433]

I do, in fact, speak in a new tongue. I used to curse, I no longer do. I used to say JW's, Mormon's, and other such false teachers were harmless. I don't say that anymore.

Yes, I speak in new tongues.

As to picking up serpents, I have in the past when working in the yard run across snakes and picked them up and moved them if I needed to be in the place they were.

I am sure there are others who have too.

Is Mark 16:17, 18 a promise? It says "they shall."

Mark 16:17, 18, "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. "

 

[DHK]

DHK,
They met in the synagogues early on. They got comfortable and were not doing what God told them to do, and "go onto all the world". God caused persecution in order to FORCE them to go out from Jerusalem and take the gospel to the rest of the world. When they started doing that they met in homes. God instructed them to not let false teachers come into their worship services (homes) to spread their false teaching.

As I said: not always in homes. Was it a home that they met in, in Acts 20?

Acts 20:8-9 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
--This was not a house; it was more like a barn. The young man fell from the window of the third loft. The smoke of the kerosene-type lamps that they used had probably deprived him of oxygen, as smoke rises to the top, causing to become sleepy all the more quickly, for it was a very long service to begin with.

Later on we know that they met in the Catacombs.
Paul preached in Greece from Mars Hill.
He often preached openly in the market places.
They met where they could, sometimes in houses, but not always.

The context is obvious. Why are you so afraid to accept a direct command of the Lord, and instead want to allegorize it away. Is it because it would hamper your lifestyle?

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
--How much clearer can the statement be. One needs no excuse for obedience.

This has nothing to do with their normal day to day living in their home. Paul welcomed ALL who came to him while he was in his home.

Whether he was under house arrest or not is 100% irrelavent. It was his...own...rented...house...and he recieved ALL who came his way.

Again you take Scripture out of context. Paul does not go against his own Word. He does not accept ALL. Does ALL include elephants and tigers as well? What does ALL mean then? Does ALL mean ALL humans living in the earth or just ALL in the known earth at that time. Did ALL in the known earth go to see Paul? Did he really accept ALL into his house, when he wrote to the very Roman believers and told them this:

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
--Would he receive those into his house whom he told the believers at Rome to avoid. That would be contradictory wouldn't it. He is teaching them to avoid false teachers. Paul is not a hypocrite. But you teach as if he was.
The ALL refers to Beleivers. Paul did not countenance fellowshipping with heretics.
He also wrote:

2 Corinthians 6:15-16 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Because they CAME TO YOUR DOOR wanting to discuss spiritual things with you *personally*, not wanting to teach in the "house" of your church, where they should be denied.

That is totally wrong. J.W.'s always come to a persons door determined to peddle their own literature, their own doctrine, to indoctrinate whomever they can. They are false teachers, wolves in sheeps' clothing, heretics, evil beings determined on sending people to hell. And you want to invite these wicked people determined on sending people to hell into your house to influence your family, your children and whomever else may be there. Suppose you aren't strong enough in the Word to counteract them. Suppose some in your house are influenced by their arguments. Do you realize that the greatest percentage of J.W.'s are former Baptists? I wonder why that is? Perhaps it is because Baptists were so smug in their own religion that they thought they could invite these messengers of Satan into their own houses and win them to the Lord (against the command of Christ), but they themselves became converted instead. Sad isn't it?

Since they came to your home, you have an opportuniy to share the truth with someone who needs to hear it An opportunity to BLESS these ones who are in error by sharing the TRUTH with them, rather than coldly "curse" them by refusing them entry.

Why do you take Scripture out of context and ignore the plain teaching of the Scripture right before your eyes.
Here is the Scriptue:

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
--Deal with it. Obey it. Don't imply that it contradicts the rest of the Bible, for it doesn't. Don't imply that it cramps your lifestyle. If it does, then change. Don't infer that those who have different views than you are cold, and curse others, and are not hospitable. You are wrong, slanderous, and full of false accusations. That is no way to carry on a debates--to resort to innuendo.

Do you believe in sharing the gospel with people? Yes? Well....here are people coming RIGHT TO YOUR DOOR (not to teach at your "church" house)...and you TURN THEM AWAY????

"The Bible says "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."
You have twisted the Great Commisssion to mean:
Call all the world into your house that you may preach the gospel in your house to the world. Sorry; it doesn't work that way. That is not God's plan. He never set it up that way. In fact he said not to do that. And nowhere does it speak of a church. That is simply your opinion. It is not mentioned in the text. Don't assume that it is.
Yes, turn them away. Turn away the advocates of Satan, Satan's emissaries, the false teachers, the message and messengers of Satan, turn them away immediately! Have nothing to do with them, especially in the sanctity of your own home. Obey 2John 1:10!

When God says.....

Go into all the world and "TELL THEM, TELL THEM TELL THEM!!

?????????????????????????????????

It means: Go, Go, Go! NOT: Invite into your house.
It does not mean invite the false teachers into your house.
It does not mean invite the emissaries of Satan into your house.
It does mean to obey 2John 1:10
Why do you have a problem with 2John 1:10

Sure you can. Its easy. You simply say...."Come right on in, would you like some coffee?"

Then I would be in direct defiance of what the Lord has said in:

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
--Which part of that don't you get?

 

[DHK]

This isnt a church, and they arent coming asking permission to spread their teaching in the church. In those situations, God clearly tells us...

"Do not recieve them into your house (meaning church of course) nor greet him..."

You are adding to the Word here. (meaning church of course). It does not mean church. The word church is not used. You are inserting something that is not there. It is entirely your opinion and nothing else. You have no support for that in this letter. It simply says:
Do not receive them into your house.
Don't try and redefine what the Bible says.

No. We are talking about a 1 on 1 encounter with someone in error, and in need of truth.

Its an easy call, DHK. Share the truth with them. Plant some seeds. Cast light in the midst of darkness.

Sure, as long as you are not inviting them into the sanctity of your own home.

Maybe the leader WAS a woman? There were many women in positions of authority and leadership in the 1st century.

1st, maybe she was the one in authority. But it really doesnt matter if its a woman leader or a man leader. "...be hospitable"

The Bible teaches that women are to keep silence in the church and are not to have authority over a man. Thus this woman was not the head of a church. That is obvious. The letter was written to a lady, a friend of John and no doubt a prominent person of the community. It was advice for her not to let false teachers into her house.
The Bible teaches hospitality--unto the household of faith. It teaches to avoid those who cause divisions among and have doctrine contrary to which you have learned. (Romans 16:17)

Nobody is doing that. The Jehovahs Wittnesses come unexpectantly. THEY come to US...we dont ask them to come.

If they come to you Receive them not into your house, neither bid them God speed.
Why anyone would want to bless messengers of Satan is beyond me!

I see it very clearly. They came to us. A door for ministry has opened. Are we going to walk through it or shrink back away from it?

There is no door of ministry inviting false teachers into your house. It goes contrary to the Word (2John 1:10). It is a simple matter of obedience. We have a ministry in obedience.

I have no idea what you are talking about there, DHK. Sizes of houses? You lost me there.

The point I made there should have been obvious to you, except that you have probably never been out of your own nation and can't relate to another culture.
Here is a good suggestion. Go back and study the small book of Philemon. There is Scripture there that indicates that there was a church that met at his house. You can also determine how large his household may have been. I can hold a small Bible Study in my house and that is about it. It isn't a big house. We read of the church in the mother of John Mark's house, in the house of Aquilla and Priscilla, and in many other houses. Why was it so?
Church buildings did not come into existence until almost 300 years after the time of Christ. They weren't needed. They did meet in houses, but what were their houses like. Have you ever visited Eastern nations?
Most of their houses can accomodate 100+ people.
Thus "church buildings" really aren't needed for the most part.
A house is not just for the immediate family as you or I are used to; it is for the entire family with as many as four or more generations living in it.
It is also big enough to house all the servants, and usually there were quite a number of them. (Onesimus was a servant--slave). In front of the actual living quarters was a large courtyard (sometimes cattle or chicken were kept), which could sit a hundred people or so. This was the typical house of the eastern culture. This is why it was easy for the early churches to meet in houses. The word "houses" in reference to the church would have been referring to the courtyard where they would be sitting, not the inner living quarters. I don't believe John is referring to any courtyard. He is not using the word ekklesia or kuriakos. He uses the word oikos for house, referring to the actual living quarters.

The point I was making in posting that verse should have been obvious...

I feel sorry for you if you have the need to "contend for the faith" in the presence of your own wife and children. Are your wife and children so far away from God that you have to contend for the faith with them? Are they also false teachers? Must you contend with them?
There is no one left if you are obeying that Biblical injunction not to receive false teachers into your house, but your family. So who are you contending with?

I am advocating doing just that. Contending earnestly for the truth. You are advocating shrinking back from it.

There is a time and a place for everything. Contending for the faith is done in conjunction with the Great Commission, not in the midst of our private devotions, and family devotions, in the sanctity of our own home. Why would I need to contend for the faith in the sanctity of my own home?

The JW's are showing up...not at a church to teach, where we should refuse them as God instructs us...but at our personal dwelling. You are in favor of telling these lost and needy people...go away!

The elect lady, (not a man) was at her own home (not a church). Don't assume church where there is none. And yes, they do show up at a house to teach and indoctrinate the one at the house that they are at. That is the purpose that they stand at the doorstep--to indoctrinate you of Satan's heresy.

I am in favor of sowing some seeds. Maybe they wont believe right then, but at least I "planted". Maybe sometime in the future a few more christians will "water", and in due time God will "give the increase".

Fine, then do things in God's way. Don't go against His will. His will is not to invite false teachers into your house. That truth is plain and simple. There are other ways.

I said: Why should I have to contend for the faith in the privacy of my own house, and your response is below:

((((HAVE)))) to???

My goodness, DHK...you should WANT to!

Why?

Because some lost people showed up at your door wanting to discuss spiritual things!

No, some of Satan's emissaries, his messengers with his message wanting to direct people to hell. It is a hellish damnable heresy that they preach. To invite such heretics whose heresy damn people to hell is irreprehensible. It is against the clear cut command of God given in 2John 1:10, and it is also a perversion of the Great Commission which tells us to GO! not to command the world to COME!

 

[gb93433]

In a cult, you are indoctrinated to believe that everyone else has it wrong...only you have the gnosis, that special knowledge that sets you apart.

Unfortunately, we have many Christians in America who do the same thing.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The thing is, the JW's do not come seeking the truth. They come for one reason and one reason only... to spread damnable heresies.

When one invites them into their house, they are disobeying not just the clear command found in 2 John 1:10, but also the clear command found in Ephesians 4:27. They are allowing the devil a foothold.