What do you normally do when a Jehovah Witness knocks on your door?

[menageriekeeper]

Standing Firm, they haven't given false doctrine when they are still standing on the doorstep. I get what you are saying, but how then do you witness to that individual standing before you, if you can't be polite enough to ask them to sit down and talk?

At the point where they are standing on my doorstep, I know full well what their religion teaches, but I can't tell you the condition of their heart. Only after I've determined that person is a false teacher and is going to continue to be a false teacher do I feel it necessary to keep them out of my house.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Scripture clearly states we are not to invite them into our house if they bring another doctrine.

Share Christ with them outside, don't invite them in unless you have shared enough of Christ with them outside so as to have caused them to turn to Him and away from their false doctrine.

If they refuse to accept the truth and reject their false doctrine, but rather cling to their heresies and reject Christ, we are not to invite them in our homes.

 

[DHK]

Oh, rubbish!

That's one way to slander the Word of God.

 

[BobRyan]

Scripture is clear we are not to welcome them in our homes if they do not bring the same doctrine that we adhere to.

Those who invite them in, those who encourage others to invite them in, they are disobeying God's Word.

If you really believed that - then technically speaking - you would confine yourself to some area of the BB where no one differs with you on any doctrine "that you value".

Or did I miss something in what you meant?

I on the other hand will gladly discuss doctrine with Catholics, Lutherans, JW's, Mormons etc.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If you really believed that - then technically speaking - you would confine yourself to some area of the BB where no one differs with you on any doctrine "that you value".

Or did I miss something in what you meant?

in Christ,

Bob

You missed everything.

 

[webdog]

That's one way to slander the Word of God.

I believe he was speaking of the misapplication of that verse, not the Word of God.

 

[BobRyan]

You missed everything.

:laugh:

That is funny - but I was thinking you were going to make a point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Matt Black]

That's one way to slander the Word of God.

In what way? I haven't attacked Scripture, just one man's interpretation of it, the authority for which I have also requested and not been given an answer.

 

[DHK]

In what way? I haven't attacked Scripture, just one man's interpretation of it, the authority for which I have also requested and not been given an answer.

I have been out for awhile. Not always here.

The passage in question is this:

2 John 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

There doesn't seem to be much room for misapplication of these verses. To call into question a literal interpretation of them "rubbish" IMO, is an slanderous attack on the Word of God.

1. In verse 9, John identifies those that transgress and abide not in the doctrine of Christ, do not have God. Who are those people. One good indicator are all those who do not beleive in the deity of Christ, and that includes Jehovah Witnesses. They do not have the doctrine of Christ. They are heretics, and false teachers. To them Christ is a created being, Michael the archangel. That is heresy.

2. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
--Here in verse 10 is a clear-cut command which cannot be avoided, cannot be simply allegorized away. If these false teachers come to your door, bringing not the doctrine of Christ, but their own false teachings, then send them away. Have nothing to do with them. Don't even say "Good Bye" or "God-by-ye" or "God-be-with-ye" as the phrase actually means. Are you going to give these false heretical teachers a blessing of "God be with you" as they go on spreading their poisonous teaching? Once you say "good-bye," that is what you do, for that is the meaning of the phrase. "Neither bid them "God speed."

I have witnessed to them on my doorstep, but I have never, never brought them into my house. I have offered to go as an ambassador of Christ to their house. I will go them. But I will not allow them to come to me. I am the one that must go. They must not come to me as false witnesses. One does not allow false teachers to come into the house of one who has dedicated it for the use of the Lord's work. It is the Lord's house, not meant for false teachers.

 

[gb93433]

Scripture clearly states we are not to invite them into our house if they bring another doctrine.

Share Christ with them outside, don't invite them in unless you have shared enough of Christ with them outside so as to have caused them to turn to Him and away from their false doctrine.

If they refuse to accept the truth and reject their false doctrine, but rather cling to their heresies and reject Christ, we are not to invite them in our homes.

2 John 1:10 , "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;

That verse teaches that they were not invite someone in their house church for the purpose of allowing those who come with a false doctrine to teach the believers who meet in that house church.

You will not know if they do not receive the truth, unless you give it to them.

The latest door knockers who came by doubtfully would have listened unless they were in my home. It was quite cold outside at the time. I would not have wanted to stand out side for more than just a few minutes and I ma sure they would not have either. It gave me an opportunity to get to know them and give them something to drink and eat. I talked with them fort about 2 hours. My sixteen year old daughter pointed out to them the wrongness of their ways. It was interesting to hear what they said and how she saw throught it right away. She followed up with some questions of her own. She continued to point out the error of their ways. As one of them listened more and more the other got agitated and started getting angry with the one listening. God was getting his attention. It strengthened my daughetr's faith partly because she saw how wrong they were and how God worked. It also motivated her to keep reading her Bible. She shared with my wife and I about how their theology does not even make sense intellectually or biblically.

What you say would make a lot of sense for the average pew sitter because the average pew sitter knows almost nothing about their Bible. Cults would not increase by the religious coming from the SBC and RCC if they knew their Bible.

Lies and false doctrine are shown through the light of the truth of scripture. Darkness is exposed by the light.

I would rather the cults spend an entire evening with me, than knocking on the door of someone who would open their door and allow their family to be taught a lie.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

John distinguished between house and Church in his epistles.

He said house, not church and not house church.

Not allowing them to preach and teach false doctrine in the Church is a given.

* disobeying God's Word for personal comfort isn't wise either.

 

[trustitl]

You will not know if they do not receive the truth, unless you give it to them.

I would rather the cults spend an entire evening with me, than knocking on the door of someone who would open their door and allow their family to be taught a lie.

Good answer. I would agree with the idea that John was addressing allowing a teacher to come in and teach. If we invite these people in with the intent of speaking the truth to them I think John would agree.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

double post...

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The epistle was written to a lady and her household... not to a Church.

John addressed the Church in his next epistle.

Do not invite them into your house... "oikia"

Church is "ecclesia"

 

[DHK]

2 John 1:10 , "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;

The latest door knockers who came by doubtfully would have listened unless they were in my home. It was quite cold outside at the time. I would not have wanted to stand out side for more than just a few minutes and I ma sure they would not have either. It gave me an opportunity to get to know them and give them something to drink and eat. I talked with them fort about 2 hours. My sixteen year old daughter pointed out to them the wrongness of their ways. It was interesting to hear what they said and how she saw throught it right away. She followed up with some questions of her own. She continued to point out the error of their ways. As one of them listened more and more the other got agitated and started getting angry with the one listening. God was getting his attention. It strengthened my daughetr's faith partly because she saw how wrong they were and how God worked. It also motivated her to keep reading her Bible. She shared with my wife and I about how their theology does not even make sense intellectually or biblically.

Your reasoning reminds me of the logic that most Charismatics use. They rely on experience rather than the Word of God. I've read the experience of the man that saw God in the early morning dawn as the sun was rising. He took a picture of "God" (even though no one has seen God at any time), and now sells copies of it on the internet. But you can't argue with him. After all that was his experience. How do you argue against experience?
I've read of the experiences of those who have been to heaven and back and of the things that they have seen there. They argue from the perspective of their experience, and not from the Word of God.

You are doing the same thing. "Look at the benefit it has done for my daughter." It was more beneficial for me to invite them in from the cold. etc. You have given all of your arguments from your experience. You have relied on experience alone for substantiating what you did. The problem with that, is that it is not what God's Word says. Basically you have substituted your experience for the clear teaching and commands of the Word of God.

What do you base your theology on: experience or the Word of God? Which will you ascribe to?

 

[gb93433]

John distinguished between house and Church in his epistles.

He said house, not church and not house church.

Not allowing them to preach and teach false doctrine in the Church is a given.

* disobeying God's Word for personal comfort isn't wise either.

Where did the churches meet?

If I were to use your method of interpretation then you must be sinning because the Bible says do not give them a greeting. If you stand outside then you are doing much more than giving them a greeting you are disobedient and

* disobeying God's Word for personal comfort isn't wise either. in sin.

You need to quit sinning by talking with them outside of your home.

The real point of the verse is that you are to not let the person who knocks on your door teach you. If I allow that person to teach me then I am in violation of that verse. When I have opportunity to teach them, then I do.


Barnes’ Commentary
Receive him not into your house This cannot mean that no acts of kindness, in any circumstances, were to be shown to such persons; but that there was to be nothing done which could be fairly construed as encouraging or countenancing them as “religious teachers.” The true rule would seem to be, in regard to such persons, that, so far as we have contact with them as neighbors, or strangers, we are to be honest, true, kind, and just, but we are to do NOTHING that will countenance them as religious teachers, We are NOT to aid their instruction, (Proverbs 19:27); we are NOT to receive them into our houses, or to entertain them as religious teachers; we are NOT to commend them to others, or to give them any reason to use our names or influence in propagating error. It would NOT be difficult to practice this rule, and yet to show to others all the kindness, and all the attention in circumstances of need, which religion demands. A person who is truly consistent is never suspected of countenancing error, even when he is distinguished for liberality, and is ready, like the good Samaritan, to pour in oil and wine in the wounds of any waylaid traveler. The command not to “receive such an one into the house,” in such circumstances as those referred to by John, would be probably understood literally, as he doubtless designed that it should be. To do that, to meet such persons with a friendly greeting, would be construed as countenancing their doctrine, and as commending them to others; and hence it was forbidden that they should be entertained as such. This treatment would not be demanded where no such interpretation could be put on receiving a friend or relative who held different and even erroneous views, or in showing kindness to a stranger who differed from us, but it WOULD apply to the receiving and entertaining “a professed teacher of religion, as such;” and the rule is as applicable now as it was then.

JFB Commentary
10. If there come any — as a teacher or brother. The Greek is indicative, not subjunctive; implying that such persons do actually come, and are sure to come; when any comes, as there will. True love is combined with hearty renunciation and separation from all that is false, whether persons or doctrines.

receive him not ... neither bid him God speed — This is not said of those who were always aliens from the Church, but of those who wish to be esteemed brethren, and subvert the true doctrine [GROTIUS]. The greeting salutation forbidden in the case of such a one is that usual among Christian brethren in those days, not a mere formality, but a token of Christian brotherhood.

 

[gb93433]

Your reasoning reminds me of the logic that most Charismatics use. They rely on experience rather than the Word of God. I've read the experience of the man that saw God in the early morning dawn as the sun was rising. He took a picture of "God" (even though no one has seen God at any time), and now sells copies of it on the internet. But you can't argue with him. After all that was his experience. How do you argue against experience?
I've read of the experiences of those who have been to heaven and back and of the things that they have seen there. They argue from the perspective of their experience, and not from the Word of God.

You are doing the same thing. "Look at the benefit it has done for my daughter." It was more beneficial for me to invite them in from the cold. etc. You have relied on experience alone for substantiating what you did. The problem with that, is that it is not what God's Word says. Basically you have substituted your experience for the clear teaching and commands of the Word of God.

What do you base your theology on: experience or the Word of God? Which will you ascribe to?

Why did you prooftext out of context what I actually wrote?

At least I have a daughter who knows her Bible well enough to be able to tell them they are wrong and what the Bible teaches. I wonder why she would be able to take such a stance? Could it be because she has worn out many Bibles by reading and studying them?

Charismatics? I wish more Baptists knew their Bible and would quit joing the Mormon Chruch by about 200 each week. If that is your experience then I can easily understand why you believe whay you do.

Perhaps you may want to read, "My sixteen year old daughter pointed out to them the wrongness of their ways. It was interesting to hear what they said and how she saw through it right away. She followed up with some questions of her own. She continued to point out the error of their ways. As one of them listened more and more the other got agitated and started getting angry with the one listening. God was getting his attention. It strengthened my daughetr's faith partly because she saw how wrong they were and how God worked. It also motivated her to keep reading her Bible. She shared with my wife and I about how their theology does not even make sense intellectually or biblically."

You cannot talk about the errors of a cult if you do not know your Bible. When you deal with over 500 of those involved in cults each year let me know. When you are able to lead many to Christ and out of the cult let me know.

 

[DHK]

Where did the churches meet?

If I were to use your method of interpretation then you must be sinning because the Bible says do not give them a greeting. If you stand outside then you are doing much more than giving them a greeting you are disobedient and

* disobeying God's Word for personal comfort isn't wise either. in sin.

This is a foolish interpretation that goes directly contrary to the command in the 2John 9-11. Having said that, it is common sense to greet someone by saying hello, and giving one's name. One must know who you are talking to. The epistle was not addressing that at all. Once a false teacher was identified one was to have nothing to do with him/her. That is also taught elsewhere in Scripture:

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

You need to quit sinning by talking with them outside of your home.

chapter and verse please?

The real point of the verse is that you are to not let the person who knocks on your door teach you. If I allow that person to teach me then I am in violation of that verse. When I have opportunity to teach them, then I do.

Every J.W. that comes to your door comes with the express purpose of teaching you. They are the false teachers! Therefore you may not allow them into your house on that basis alone. They have come with the purpose in mind of teaching you. They are the false teachers!
You are putting your experience and reasoning above the teaching of the Word of God.

Barnes’ Commentary

Receive him not into your house This cannot mean that no acts of kindness, in any circumstances, were to be shown to such persons; but that there was to be nothing done which could be fairly construed as encouraging or countenancing them as “religious teachers.” The true rule would seem to be, in regard to such persons, that, so far as we have contact with them as neighbors, or strangers, we are to be honest, true, kind, and just, but we are to do NOTHING that will countenance them as religious teachers, We are NOT to aid their instruction, (Proverbs 19:27); we are NOT to receive them into our houses, or to entertain them as religious teachers; we are NOT to commend them to others, or to give them any reason to use our names or influence in propagating error. It would NOT be difficult to practice this rule, and yet to show to others all the kindness, and all the attention in circumstances of need, which religion demands. A person who is truly consistent is never suspected of countenancing error, even when he is distinguished for liberality, and is ready, like the good Samaritan, to pour in oil and wine in the wounds of any waylaid traveler. The command not to “receive such an one into the house,” in such circumstances as those referred to by John, would be probably understood literally, as he doubtless designed that it should be. To do that, to meet such persons with a friendly greeting, would be construed as countenancing their doctrine, and as commending them to others; and hence it was forbidden that they should be entertained as such.

Barnes does not contradict the position that I have explained to you.

 

[DHK]

You cannot talk about the errors of a cult if you do not know your Bible. When you deal with over 500 of those involved in cults each year let me know. When you are able to lead many to Christ and out of the cult let me know.

You don't learn about the errors of cults by inviting cult leaders into your house. That is a heretical approach to learning about cults. If you think you must learn more about the cults then do so by getting a good book. I can recommend some to you, as well as a few good web-sites that have good apologetic information. Inviting heretics into your own house goes directly contrary to the Bible.

Like many Charismatics do, you are putting your experience above the clear-cut commands of the Bible. "It works for me, therefore it must be good." Essentially that is what you are saying, in spite of what the Word of God says.
The end does not justify the means.

 

[bobbyd]

Since i live in a parsonage i don't always get them at my door, but when it does happen i try to bring them in for a visit so that someone in their group will hear the truth.