What do you normally do when a Jehovah Witness knocks on your door?

[gb93433]

You must have selected reading skills, gb. I said more than once I will not invite them in my house, nor will I bid them God speed. That is what the Word of God says.

I asked you, "Do you know what "do not give him a greeting" means?

You mentioned earleir that you talk to them outside your door. Apparently you talk to them beyond a greeting. Why?

 

[BobRyan]

It is not a difficult verse Bob. Just take it literally.
Think of the persistent habit of the J.W.'s and of what the Bible says about their practice.
If there come any to your door and bring not this doctrine do not let them in or even bid them God speed. If you do, you are partaker of their evil deeds.

The teaching is very clear without any ambiguity. It is speaking to a lady in her house. Don't let a false teacher, one that does not bring the doctrine of Christ, into your house. You are faceless Bob. You are on a computer. You are not in my house. The internet obviously doesn't count as a book doesn't count, and didn't in that day. John never mentioned books. He was speaking of false teachers. If I don't want you in my house via internet I can turn you off at any time by shutting off my computer. A J.W., once inside the house, is much more difficult to "turn off." There is nothing difficult about this command. It is clear-cut, simply put, and one doesn't need to add "what ifs," and other speculative ideas. Just follow the Word.

#1. I don't mean to argue that all people should study with JW's.
#2. I usually consider the verse in question to refer to someone in your own denomination that you know to be teaching error.

However when you look "at the context" in the NT - the Jews were considered "the people of the book" and the gentiles were "the unwashed masses" according to Eph 2. Christians were not to avoid the Jews -- for indeed the Jerusalem council WAS little more than "Christian Jews".

In fact that whole point was to study with Jews and Gentiles - to conver them.

Rather the problem was with fellow Christians who were teaching error.

That is much more analagous to our dealing with people inside our own respective denominations that are teaching error and not offering them any aid as they do so.

in Christ,

bob

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I asked you, "Do you know what "do not give him a greeting" means?

You mentioned earleir that you talk to them outside your door. Apparently you talk to them beyond a greeting. Why?

If I talk to them outside, I am not disobeying God's Word. If I talk with them, I share Christ with them. I do not allow them the upper hand.

 

[trustitl]

You are incorrect here.
John doesn't make any indication of who he is writing to in his first epistle. His audience is unnamed.
In his second epistle he is writing to a lady of the elect, one who is of the family of God, elected before the foundations of the world.
In his third epistle, he names himself as "the elder" but not specifically by name, and names the person he is writing to--Gaius. All three epistles are different. Yet they have the same author.

Incorrect? Perhaps, but typically the gospels are not considered epistles. You are free to equate the two but I, along with most would not.

Your help make my point more clear by pointing out that the third epistle of John was personal because it was addressed to an individual. Thank you.

 

[trustitl]

Almost every JW that I have dealt with told me that he or she used to be a Baptist, a Methodist, a Church of Christ, etc.

Has anybody ever wondered if this kind of arguing (if we can talk to JH in the house or in the front yard) is what made them leave :tear: .

 

[DHK]

#1. I don't mean to argue that all people should study with JW's.

There is a principle that many Christians today "don't get." It is a principle of separation with unbelievers.
The believer is commanded to obey the Great Commission, and to go and evangelize the lost. Always he is commanded to GO! Never is he to wait around until the false teachers come to him. He is to go to them.
We are not to go to their Bible Studies. We are to take the Word to them. We must be on the offensive with the Sword of the Spirit at all times.

There is a principle of: Always separate; never infiltrate. If a person gets saved, and he is in the RCC, then the Biblical course of action is to leave that apostate organization and come out of it. "Infiltrating" it or staying inside the organization thinking you may do good, will only do you more harm. We are to separate from ungodliness and those who do not preach the truth. (2Cor. 6:14-17).
#2. I usually consider the verse in question to refer to someone in your own denomination that you know to be teaching error.

However when you look "at the context" in the NT - the Jews were considered "the people of the book" and the gentiles were "the unwashed masses" according to Eph 2. Christians were not to avoid the Jews -- for indeed the Jerusalem council WAS little more than "Christian Jews".

This is not true. Once saved they were one in Christ. This is the theme of the book of Ephesians. There was no more Gentile; no more Jew; but all were one in Christ. The Council of Jerusalem was pastored by James the half-brother of Christ, and included the Apostles along with Paul and Barnabas. These were not just some rag tag "Christian Jews." Paul had given up all things for Christ. He counted those things but "dung" for the excellency of the Lord Jesus Christ. He was referring to his Jewish heritage, and what he could have had as a Jew. He was a Christian, a child of the King. And so were the others. They were disputing the heresy of the Judaizers who were eseentially promoting a works salvation.

In fact that whole point was to study with Jews and Gentiles - to conver them.

No such point was made at all. Check 2Cor.6:14-17. Paul makes point after point to avoid false teachers. In every book of the NT we are admonished to avoid false teachers. It couldn't be any clearer. Read Jesus words in Matthew 7. Beware of wolves who come to you in sheeps' clothing.
You shall know them by their fruits.
In every NT book we are given such warnings. Your point is totally groundless and without any Biblical support.

Rather the problem was with fellow Christians who were teaching error.

Paul addresses Christians teaching error in some places such as in 1Cor., and they are sharply rebuked. It is never condoned. Sitting down and dialoguing with them is never condoned either. Separating from them is a command of Scripture.

That is much more analagous to our dealing with people inside our own respective denominations that are teaching error and not offering them any aid as they do so.

False teachers ought not to be in our churches in the first place. They certainly are not in mine. And no false teacher will ever enter mine except to sit as a non-member on the pew and have the permission as a visitior to listen, and nothing more.

 

[Joe]

JW's are not allowed in my home!!:BangHead: I'd let a child molester, thief, homo, murderer etc..in my home before allowing someone possessed by the devil in. Their sole purpose is to damn your soul to hell.

Yet the Lord commands us to minister to them, as the Great Commission doesn't exclude JW's.

1 Thess 5:22 Avoid the appearance of evil

I Cor 15: 33 Don’t be fooled by those who say such things, for “bad company corrupts good character.”

2 Corinthians 6:  14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Isa. 52: 11 ¶ Depart ye, depart ye, go ye aout from thence, btouch no cunclean thing; go ye dout of the midst of her; be ye eclean, that bear the vessels of the Lord



Funny thing about JW's is, they attempt to send the good looking females to the homes of men or vice versa. If you're thin, they send the thin ones to you. Obviously, you are more likely to answer the door when the person is appealing, nearer to your age, etc..whether we are conscious of it or not. This is one reason why they often ask specifics about your neighbors, they are planning to visit them. It's for the "pairing up process". They begin asking you about your neighborhood, is it quiet? etc...A few JW's admitted this to me once while we studied.

I have studied with them in my yard, but never let them in the house. Even when they come back, I say my wife doesn't like pretty girls in the house so it works fine.

My only stipulation is I have them promise to have scriptural support for everything they teach, as I accept no opinions which have nothing to do with the text and they use the KJV bible I provide them. They are very willing to comply. I bring out a few quick snacks and beverages.

They always have plenty of time, and travel in pairs.

It always goes the same way, no matter what we study. The sentence in their material starts out trying to make a point, offers a scripture to back up their point, then the next sentence "slips" in an opinion contrary to the scripture the provided. Over and over I ask about it, meekly point out the discrepancy, and they get embarrassed. Some attempt an explanation, yet it's easy to use their own words against them. Just repeat it back and point to the scripture and opinion again, and ask "Now does what you say make any sense?" You become a robot, so the conversation goes in circles for hours.
They become flustered very easy. The third time they come to my yard to study, I meekly ask them if they would mind studying the bible without their watchtower material because by then, they are usually quite embarrassed of all of the continous discrepancies pointed out by someone with very little bible knowledge. They agree to do this, even make an appointment for our next study, yet they never show up. Imo, it causes mental anguish, so they ask for advice at their Kingdom Hall and are told I am of the devil, playing with them. They don't buy it though imo...I can't admit that I know more than what they understood because they won't study with me otherwise. Not sure I could hold my own with them but planting a seed of doubt using their own materials is quite easy :thumbs:

Edited to add: It takes me a while to type a post so any similarities to DHK's most recent post is only coincidental. I hadn't read it before typing this out.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I'd let a child molester, theif, homo, murderer etc..in my home before allowing someone possessed by the devil into my home

Uhhhh, NEWS FLASH...

All those above mentioned are possessed by the devil.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[gb93433]

If I talk to them outside, I am not disobeying God's Word. If I talk with them, I share Christ with them. I do not allow them the upper hand.

So are you saying that to not give them a greeting is to not let them have the upper hand?

 

[trustitl]

Uhhhh, NEWS FLASH...

All those above mentioned are possessed by the devil.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I doubt they are possessed by the devil. They are most likely just living after the lusts of the flesh. Lets not give Satan credit he doesn't deserve and lets put the blame where it truly lies.

 

[Joe]

To correct my error, JW's are probably possessed by a demon, not the devil himself since the devil cannot be everywhere at once.

 

[Hardsheller]

I introduce myself and ask them for their names.

I then tell them I will not talk with them unless they agree to give me their addresses.

They usually want to know why.

I tell them because you know my name and where I live and it's not fair that I don't know yours so I can come to visit you and share my faith with you. They are told repeatedly that they're the only ones who visit. ( I don't know what they do when they run into the boys on the bicycles)

I've actually had three give me their address. My wife and I visited. One was not at home so we left tracts. Another would not let us in. She wouldn't even come to the door so I told her husband why I was visiting and I think he was a little put off by her unwillingness to at least talk to me and saw the inconsistency in her position. Another invited us in and we had an engaging conversation and were able to witness to her. I hope it made an impact.

Now I live in a town where my neighbors are JW's and apparently they've put the word out cause we don't ever get any JW's as visitors.

 

[gb93433]

I forgot to mention that I have by my front door I have copies of things they claim to support their theology. Those things show the lie they believe uisng their own claims from the books they quote.

I give them the copies and ask them to return once they have read them. Very few return.

It works well especially when I am in a hurry or busy. It also allows them to read their own materials which proves their theology inconsistent and wrong.

 

[sag38]

I don't invite them in but I will talk with them. I've never found them to be rude nor too argumentative. They are always dressed nice. And, they know their stuff. Many Christians could learn a lesson or two.

I was stopped outside of my seminary housing in N.O. one afternoon by some JW's. I told them that SBC pastors in training lived in my apartment complex. They didn't care. So I went and got my Bible. Their twisting of scripture was very subtle and even provocative. It's funny because several of my fellow seminary buddies didn't even stop to help out. I felt like the beaten man on the side of the road while the priest walked by. Except my friends weren't disgusted. They were smirking at me. "Poor sag. What has he got himself into?" At times I was beginning to wonder the same thing. It was five against one. In the end all I could do is pray for them.

Is it true that you can hang a U.S. flag on your house and the JW's won't come a knocking?

 

[Tom Butler]

I forgot to mention that I have by my front door I have copies of things they claim to support their theology. Those things show the lie they believe uisng their own claims from the books they quote.

I give them the copies and ask them to return once they have read them. Very few return.

It works well especially when I am in a hurry or busy. It also allows them to read their own materials which proves their theology inconsistent and wrong.

Could you be more specific. In what way do their own publications create problems for your visitors? How are they inconsistent?

 

[gb93433]

Could you be more specific. In what way do their own publications create problems for your visitors? How are they inconsistent?

For JWS

I take the books they quote and make copies of them so they can see for themselves the lies that are perpetuated by their cult.

Over ther years I have read some of their books and then made copies of their supporting sources from authors like a.T. Robertson. Obviously they make quotes out of context and apply to say what they want.

For Mormons

I have gotten a lot of materials from www.hismin.com

 

[trustitl]

To correct my error, JW's are probably possessed by a demon, not the devil himself since the devil cannot be everywhere at once.

Then why don't you cast them out?

It is incredibly unlikely they are demon possessed by Satan or even the most trivial of demons. They have, by their own will believed a lie and are living according to it. I'm not trying to be contentious, I just think going down this road leads to no where.

 

[trustitl]

I introduce myself and ask them for their names.

I then tell them I will not talk with them unless they agree to give me their addresses.

They usually want to know why.

I tell them because you know my name and where I live and it's not fair that I don't know yours so I can come to visit you and share my faith with you. They are told repeatedly that they're the only ones who visit. ( I don't know what they do when they run into the boys on the bicycles)

I've actually had three give me their address. My wife and I visited. One was not at home so we left tracts. Another would not let us in. She wouldn't even come to the door so I told her husband why I was visiting and I think he was a little put off by her unwillingness to at least talk to me and saw the inconsistency in her position. Another invited us in and we had an engaging conversation and were able to witness to her. I hope it made an impact.

Now I live in a town where my neighbors are JW's and apparently they've put the word out cause we don't ever get any JW's as visitors.

Great idea. Going to try it myself.
I always tell them I will will talk with them if they are willing to listento me as well. It is amazing how many will. I am convinced that most of the people are seeking for truth.
Once as JW was seeming very interested in the true gospel and we exchanged phone numbers. However, when I called a few days later he wouldn't talk. I'm sure the leaders got a hold of him and "straightened him out". I new that something good would come from this thread than an argument about if we can talk to them in our house or if it has to be in the front yard.

 

[Matt Black]

You are insulting Matt. Some (even most) passages of Scriptures have a clear teaching.

JUst being realistic, not insulting.

Perhaps you haven't studied enough to find out what that clear teaching is. Don't blame the rest of us for your inadequacies. There is a clear teaching. You can find it out for yourself.

If that were true there would be no divisions within Christendom. There are. It isn't. End of. QED.

Just an example:
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Is there a clear teaching on this passage of God's Word, Matt?

Only if all its readers agree on the meaning of the word 'believe'. Is it merely intellectual assent? Vague adherence to an abstract concept? Or is it what is elsewhere called 'faith' (again, that word needs to be defined)? Oh, I nearly forgot: of course 'him' needs to be defined too; to return to the subject matter of this thread, the JWs have a vey different concept of the 'him' in this verse than do you or I.

You tell me, then: in what way is it 'clear'?

 

[DHK]

You tell me, then: in what way is it 'clear'?

1. If they (false teachers as the J.W.'s) come to your door,
2. Do not allow them into your house.
3. Do not even say good-bye to them (bid them God speed).

What is hard to understand about that passage?