What do you think of Day Care

[mcdirector]

A poster, who I won't name because the thread is in plain site, brought up the question of day care and what it's doing to our kids. The topic was ignored because of the way that poster handles things, but Rufus pointed out that the topic is of value.

So what do you think about day care? What do you think it's doing to society? How should we as Christians be helping each other out when our brothers and sisters need to work and have wee ones?

One of my posts on the other thread:

Personally, my husband and I made the decision that I would stay home while the kids were little. I had 8 glorious years at home from the time the first one was born until the time the second one went to kindergarten. I don't think (based on my personality) that I could have done it much longer though!

I also had friends that stayed home their 6 weeks and found childcare (not daycare - childcare) and their kids are wonderful! They are great parents, spend tons of time with them, invest much of themselves in the activities they are involved in. Most of my friends were in this category and as I said, their kids turned out great.

------------------------
Part of the problem is that there aren't enough adults staying home to take care of all the kids of all the working parents. What's the solution?

 

[rbell]

So what do you think about day care? What do you think it's doing to society? How should we as Christians be helping each other out when our brothers and sisters need to work and have wee ones?
What's the solution?

This is a big question...here's one little angle.

Where I am, I see a lot of folks that "have" to have 2 incomes to "make it." Of course, "making it" means more house than one can afford, 2 mortgages, 2 really nice cars (with payments), and lots of nice toys.

My wife and I have made it on one modest income. We don't always have the "stuff" others have. Our cars are 9 and 14 years old...paid for. We're debt free, with two months of living expenses in the bank (working on having 12!).

But we've done without. We've not had internet that long. We still don't have cable. We don't eat out much. We don't get to take many trips.

But my wife has been able to stay at home with our munchkins. That's a blessing. (OK, today that's not been a blessing...mom's had 'one of those days' with Munchkin #1, but you parents know what I mean...:laugh

Our expenses are MUCH less than other folks...we don't put as much mileage on cars, we don't have daycare, our clothes expenses are less, our food expenses are less (we don't "eat out because we're both too tired to cook"), etc. I'm happy that our lives are just a bit simpler.


Please note: I'm not disparaging single moms, truly impoverished families, or those with special circumstances. But there are quite a few in my neck of the woods who should redefine "making it."

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I am not sure what you are looking for mc...

I have worked daycare back in mid-90's and it was a Christian home with much love and concern for the children.

The children received compassion and love when they were sad or hurting. They were fed. They were changed regularly so as not to get diaper rash for the youngest.

Even the ones who were potty trained were required to bring with them at least 2 pair of clothes in case of accidents.

Laundry facilities were provided as well in case of accidents or spills.

Medical releases were given to us in case of emergency and numbers to reach responsible family members. As per state and county regulations, we each had to be licensed by the local chapter of American Red Cross for CPR and First Aid if such emergencies did arise. Because of a swimming pool in the backyard (fenced in and padlock on gate) we also had to pass lifeguard qualifications in case of such emergency as would arise there.

Now, I know not all Day Care Facilities are run as the one I was in, but I am sure many are.

For those who are not as caring for those in their charge, strict fines should be administered and the children should be taken to a much more loving environment.

 

[bapmom]

Good job, Bitsy!

I would never call daycare a sin, because there are legitimate uses for it in today's day and age. There are single mommies who just have to have some help in that area, and there are two-parent homes that need some help there, too.

I do think there's great possibility for it being abused, and it turning into a very less-than-ideal situation. But this is when the parents use daycare as a substitute parent - I have seen this happen, and I know most if not all would agree that it does happen. When I worked in an at-home daycare we had one family that dropped their little boys off at 6am and often didn't pick them up again until 7pm or later.....including their days off, because the parents used those days for "relaxation". Especially frustrating was that this was not a family who really needed both incomes.....they each had very high-paying career jobs. However, this was not every family.

I like how you brought up our church's responsibilities in this area. I think we'd be doing a service to each other if we offered sort of a "church day-care" where the SAHMs sort of trade off watching the children of the ladies who need to work. Especially for single moms it could be a huge help and relief for them to know their children are in Christian homes of ladies who they know and fellowship with in their church.


Personally, I stay home with our kids....not because I can, but because we have made some personal sacrifices in order for me to do so. It is almost never easy, and we have had to have some help along the way, but God has always provided.

 

[annsni]

It would absolutely break my heart to have to use daycare. I am so sad when I drive by Tutor Time (local franchise day care) and see kids getting picked up at 6:30 - knowing that most of them were dropped off before 9 so that their parents can work. Now, we live in a very expensive area of the country (the cheapest house in my zip is just under $500,000 and it goes WAY up from there - property taxes on my own home run $13,000 a year), but I'd say that the majority of people around here could live in a cheaper area, get a smaller house, downscale quite a bit and be able to afford having mom stay home with the kids. Then again, SO many parents don't WANT to stay home with the kids!! My problem is not so much the family that has to have both parents work to be able to keep a roof over their heads and clothing on the kids - I know people like that and they struggle but have to do it. My problem is with the parents who feel that expensive homes, expensive cars, expensive clothing, expensive vacations, etc. are more important than their children. That is pretty prevalent around here.

I know someone who went back to full time work when her baby was just 5 weeks old. She had NO desire to stay home with him at all. They said they didn't need her income at all but that she just couldn't stand being home all day doing "nothing". When she had her second child, if the baby were fussy in the morning, she'd bring him to day care then come back and finish getting the toddler and herself ready for the day - then she'd go to daycare then to work. I have to say, those are 2 very maladjusted boys and VERY disrespectful of their mother and father (they were 9 and 11 when we last saw them).

What really breaks my heart is that a mother's heart is no longer inclined towards her children. What has happened that mothers don't like their children?????? I LOVE being around my children! I homeschool and one of the reasons is that I love being with them - being a part of their everyday life - of watching them grow and learn - being the one to teach them. I have 2 teens now - they're 14 and 17 - and we are GREAT friends. They'll tell us anything. They want to BE with us - even begging us to go on the youth retreats with them (they're friends all like us too). My children are a wonderful blessing from God and I'll keep my part of the job of raising them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. No one else can do that like me because God gave them to ME.

 

[tinytim]

I have also seen the this problem, but have limited time today to discuss it.
But I am interested in knowing what others think.
I would not want to call it a sin, as the Bible doesn't speak directly about it, but it does seem to be a growing problem.

In the Bible, relatives helped with the children (Mary not knowing where Jesus was when he was 12, for example)

I'll be back later... Thank you McDirector, and Rufus for starting a serious thread.

 

[annsni]

I have also seen the this problem, but have limited time today to discuss it.
But I am interested in knowing what others think.
I would not want to call it a sin, as the Bible doesn't speak directly about it, but it does seem to be a growing problem.

In the Bible, relatives helped with the children (Mary not knowing where Jesus was when he was 12, for example)

I'll be back later... Thank you McDirector, and Rufus for starting a serious thread.

I also wouldn't call day care a sin - but the emotions behind using it CAN be sinful. Selfishness, greed, covetousness, etc. are all sins.

 

[mcdirector]

I am not sure what you are looking for mc....

Just a serious discussion of a serious topic and not the silliness we were giving the topic on the other thread. In other words, I don't have an agenda here.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I've done both and I have to say that for us, things were much smoother once we rearranged our entire lives and finances to the point to where we could live on just T's salary. Before that my inlaws were my childcare. Perfect situation? Well it was until the marriage problems started and my 2 year old started telling me that Papa had made Nanny cry.

Btw, I also worked for years in a well run daycare. Obviously I have no problem with it as a whole. As a matter of fact, daycare is not a problem in and of itself. It's the parents who are the problem. Many of the problems with the public school system are also faced by daycare providers. Parents who drop their kids off at first light and are the last to pick up. Parents who truly believe that their kids are perfect and should never have to sit in timeout. Parents who simply have no clue who is supposed to be in charge and allow their children to rule the roost. We even had one mother, when her child jumped off a slide and broke his arm, to take him to get a cast and then bring him back because "she had to work".

But with all the bad, there are also all the good: Parents who make sure they have time to take when we planned special events. Parents who informed us when their child was having a bad day. Parents who didn't complain when we wouldn't keep their sick child or came immediately to pick a sick little one. Parents who understood that 3 year olds must be potty trained and we didn't make exceptions simply because the parent didn't want to take the time to work on it at home.

Daycare is not the main issue. The main issue is what is right for a particular family and child. For my children it was and is right for me to stay home. Other families may do quite well with both parents working.

However, if the only behavioral input a child is getting is from the daycare workers or being yelled at because mother/father is too tired at night to deal, then that family needs to rethink what they are doing. I saw a lot of both at the church daycare where I worked.

Rufus made a good point in the other thread also about how sometimes it only seems like a family is "getting ahead" by both parents working. In our case, when it came time for the second one to come along and reality that we would have to pay for daycare because MIL wasn't up to keeping two, it was much more economically feasible to rearrange ours lives and for me to stay home.

Rearranging can be difficult. For us it meant selling our home and moving into one with half the space, not buying a new car but having my husband drive the already paid for truck so I could drive the almost paid for car and after that driving both cars for several years so we wouldn't have a car payment. It was tough, but it's been worth it.

 

[mcdirector]

What really breaks my heart is that a mother's heart is no longer inclined towards her children.

If I may lean in toward this quote . . .

When I have afternoon car duty, I'm seeing more and more parents who don't even get off their phones to say hello to their kids much less carry on a conversation with them! Oh this bothers me!

 

[annsni]

If I may lean in toward this quote . . .

When I have afternoon car duty, I'm seeing more and more parents who don't even get off their phones to say hello to their kids much less carry on a conversation with them! Oh this bothers me!

I work with a lot of new moms at church (we are a prolific church) and I'm finding that I'm constantly telling the moms that it's OK to respond to your child. There are so man "experts" out there - and many of them are Christian people - who say that you should NOT respond to a crying baby - just one that's quiet (HUH??). That the child should be manipulated to fit into YOUR life and not your life changing for that child. A baby should be on a strict schedule so that he/she is not ruling you. ???????? What??? What about the fact that this child has no way to communicate other than crying and responding to them just shows them that you care about their needs? That each child is different and will not always fit the mold that says "babies should sleep x number of hours a day in x number of naps and should only eat every x number of hours". I really strongly believe that when we begin to ignore our children's needs from an early age, it hardens our hearts toward them. I've seen evidence of this - and I've seen evidence in the children of THEIR hearts being hardened. I've seen babies just sit in the stroller with a horrible blow out diaper because they know that the mother will not like them to cry - she won't respond anyway. **SHUDDER** That absolutely breaks my heart. And I think we're seeing the next generation - the generation who was raised by other people so that their parents could "have it all" - and now they're striving for the "all" and they can't find it - because what they're really looking for is significance in THEIR lives that was not fulfilled by parents.

LOL - Yea, I feel strongly about this. Again, parents who NEED two incomes just to put food on the table are a totally different story. I pray that God will protect them and their children from the negatives of the whole situation. *I* work too - but I'm able to take my kids with me (I work at church - in the sanctuary when no one else is in there), thank the Lord. If I didn't have this job, I'd get a job in the evening so that my DH could watch them. I'm not sure if I'd ever be able to use institutional child care - it would honestly kill me, but that's where my heart is - towards my children.

 

[bapmom]

the part about not responding to your child comes from the good advice to not give in to a child who is screaming in anger - and yes, this happens at a much earlier age than any of us would like to admit! lol :laugh: (sometimes as young as 6 months)

but yeah, you don't just ignore, you address it, calm the child, then figure out if anything is really needed (feeding, changing diaper, too cold, too hot, etc)


There's a greater issue at work here, with the world starting to be more set up to having the actual parents being less and less involved in the training and actual bringing up of their own kids. Id seriously stay away from gov't run daycares, as to me this is just one more step in the gov't trying to raise my kids for me. There are already judges out there who tell us that the kids belong to the state and not the parents.

Let me add, this issue has been discussed here before and there are some very strong emotions involved. Some people here are very close to this issue. I hope we can continue to have this discussion in such a kind and caring manner.

 

[mcdirector]

This is a big question...here's one little angle.

Where I am, I see a lot of folks that "have" to have 2 incomes to "make it." Of course, "making it" means more house than one can afford, 2 mortgages, 2 really nice cars (with payments), and lots of nice toys.

Well, this is a problem all kinds of places -- my place included. AND you are not alone in realizing that the sacrifice is worth the return. Even when I decided that I wanted to work - after the kids were both in school, I went back to get my teaching certificate, so that my hours/days were the same as the kids. The boys were at the same school I was at most of the time after I started teaching. Oldest did go to a different high school. So much is recognizing what has to be (what can be) done so that the sacrificing is done as a family and not all on the kid's end.

 

[Amy.G]

I was put in daycare when I was 6 weeks old. That was in 1959. I was in the care of a very nice, Christian lady in her 50's who kept about 5 other children as well in her home (which was 3 rooms). She was very good to all of us. Always had plenty to eat, played outside all day if the weather permitted, took naps, ect. No matter how nice she was, she was not my mother. I remember missing my mother every single day. Sometimes, I would cry for her. I was in some sort of daycare until I was 12 and finally I got to stay at home alone after school. I remember when I was a little girl having to leave home at 6:00 in the morning to go to the babysitter (as it was called in those days), while my neighbor friends were still sleeping soundly until they awoke to spend the day at home with their mother. I also remember getting sick at school several times and having no way to get home. My mother had no car and my father worked for the highway dept. and could not be reached.

When I got pregnant with my son (he's my only child, now 21), the thought of putting him in daycare made me cry. We decided that I would quit my job and stay home for about 3 months (that's all we could afford). But, the Lord provided and I'm still at home (only now I care for my mother, who lives with us). We had to give up a lot of 'stuff', but it is well worth it.

It doesn't matter how clean the daycare is, how nice the caregivers are, how many toys there are or anything else. Nobody can take the place of mother. And no place can take the place of home. Daycare should only be used if there is no other option, even if that means a smaller house, an older car and no expensive vacations. I beleive God expects us to raise our own children.

Hope no one gets mad at me for expressing my opinion, but I can speak from the other side of the fence. There's no place like home. And there's no one like Mom.

On the positive side of this story....my mother and I have always been very close. And now it's my turn to care for her, which I also believe God expects us to do. I do not want anyone to think that I am criticizing her. I think she just did the best she could.

 

[palagislandgirl]

What do you think of Day Care?

I used to work in daycare. I have worked in both secular and "christian" daycares. I agree that it is best for the children to stay at home. You have to be careful when choosing daycare. There are couples in the world that don't have a choice but to send their kids to daycare and of course there are single parents. I think that it is something that couples should pray strongly about. I think that as far as an impact on society it depends on the individual child and their family. As far as helping each other; why not do a mom's day out or have some adopted familes in the church who might be able to keep the kids a couple of days a week so it cuts down on time in daycare.
:godisgood:

 

[mcdirector]

There's a greater issue at work here, with the world starting to be more set up to having the actual parents being less and less involved in the training and actual bringing up of their own kids. Id seriously stay away from gov't run daycares, as to me this is just one more step in the gov't trying to raise my kids for me. There are already judges out there who tell us that the kids belong to the state and not the parents.

This is a huge problem and one we will see more and more of. Politicians & judges are more than welcome to offer suggestions, but telling what to do and how to do it are entirely different matters. Each small community needs to look at ways to help parents where parents need help. I think churches have a serious role here that they have neglected in many ways.

Let me add, this issue has been discussed here before and there are some very strong emotions involved. Some people here are very close to this issue. I hope we can continue to have this discussion in such a kind and caring manner.

Yes, and it's highly personal - like on the childlessness thread. I don't remember if it was Ed Sutton or rbell (or someone else) who said that this is really part of the priesthood of the believer, but it is here too. It is up to each individual family to make these choices for their family. I don't want anyone to think I'm sitting in judgement. God gave us each a different set of circustances and a different set of wherewithalls to deal with those circumstances. :thumbs:

 

[donnA]

I was always at home for my kids, never worked. I think when possible, mom needs to be home. But I realize that isn't always possible. There are osmepleaces no matter how cheap you try to live you aren't going to live on one low income, not everyonehas a great job. And sometimes mom has to work in order to provide basics for the kids. I am sure day care stinks, when compared to being with mom. But when you have too, you have too. Just choose carefully, there are some really bad day cares out there. Here locally we have a couple of day cares, but a lot of people choose baby sitters instead, usually people who are baby sitting for more then one family. Again though, chose carefully, usually it is someone you know, or someone you know has used their services. The kids get a little more personal attention that way, which si what they need.

 

[annsni]

I also think that, if a family cannot afford for mom to stay home, a great alternative to working outside the house is to do in home daycare herself. Depending on where you live, you can make a decent income without having to be approved or anything. Some places you can watch up to 3 children in addition to your own without having to register and such - and I'm sure you can make just as good or better money doing that than going out to work (unless you had a high paying job). If I REALLY needed the money, I'd do that in a heartbeat - probably taking in 2 children which would give me 4 kids to watch during the day (2 taken in and 2 of my own). It's a very doable job, if you need to do it.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Thanks for creating this thread McDirector.

I don't really have anything to add that hasn't been said already, other than thank God for Godly mothers.

 

[donnA]

I also think that, if a family cannot afford for mom to stay home, a great alternative to working outside the house is to do in home daycare herself. Depending on where you live, you can make a decent income without having to be approved or anything. Some places you can watch up to 3 children in addition to your own without having to register and such - and I'm sure you can make just as good or better money doing that than going out to work (unless you had a high paying job). If I REALLY needed the money, I'd do that in a heartbeat - probably taking in 2 children which would give me 4 kids to watch during the day (2 taken in and 2 of my own). It's a very doable job, if you need to do it.

You have to start out with a decent home of your own in order to baby sit. Many here do not have it. I know I didn't when my kids were young. we did without a lot of things, important things(shoes when needed, sometimes clothes, even though we only bought used, and sometimes even food). My husband now says he was wrong about me being in the house the whole time our kids were growing up.