What does believe mean?

As I said before, if you are against the idea that "believing that God exist" is the gospel, then I am right with you. But it is quite a jump to go from saying that if you believe the wrong thing, you aren't really saved, to saying that even though you believe what scripture commands you to believe that it isn't enough because you might not be obedient.

Of course we agree about lost folks, but what about saved folks who don't submit to his lordship? Are you saying it is impossible? Is it proof that they aren't saved? Or that it causes them to lose their salvation?

Or something else that I am missing?

You are talking about two very different (howbeit related) things. You are mixing faith and obedience.

See you switched. Now you are talking about believing in Christ's redeeming blood. That is for salvation. Lordship comes afterwards and we still have free-will. Calling salvation into doubt every time someone refuses to yield to his lordship confounds the gospel. It introduces doubt as to whether it is enough to believe that Christ took my place and accept it as a free gift or if I have to attain to a certain degree (never specified) of holiness to know if I am "truly" saved.

I am truly saved because I have believed in what Christ did and accepted it for all my righteousness. If I sin, even horribly, it has absolutely no diminishing effect on the saving power of Christ's blood. I am still saved.

Lacy

 

To believe is to be His disciple, to follow Him, to be reborn with a new life in Him.

Not everyone that says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of my Father.Mt 7:21

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19

No easy believism here. One must follow hard after their master and strive to enter in the narrow gait, being reformed by the renewing of their mind, not being conformed to the ways of the world as described in Rom 12:1,2

All this is due to loving Him because He first loved us.

For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not. John7:64

 

Hi everyone.

I would like to discuss on this topic. I agree with Scarlett O.

Too many people like Lutherans, Methodists, Catholics actual believe Jesus is the Son of God, just same as many baptists do. Myself was a Lutheran years ago. I did believe in Jesus Christ, that He is the Son of God, and He died on the cross for our sins. I took confirmation class at Lutheran school. Pastor did taught on Jesus Christ. He believes Jesus is the Son of God, and He believes Jesus died on the cross for our sins. He believes Christ was actually risen from the dead. Same with my family, my mom knows sign language well. She talked on Jesus to me many times. She believed Jesus is the Son of God. She believes Christ died on the cross for our sins. She believes Christ risen from the dead.

We have to be careful about being judge to any religions, tell which one is truly saved or not. Many religions truly believe in Jesus Christ same as what Baptists do.

There is much debate about salvation more than any doctrines ever I seen already. I realize that salvation is so much important than any doctrines. Because many people desire to have eternal life, and want go to heaven. About 80% to 90% of religions are desire to have eternal life, go to heaven. But there are too many different views on salvation because of their intepreting and beliefs. Religions cause people confusions and misunderstandings.

Christ warns us of Matt. 7:13-20, He tells us most are being end up in everlasting punishment, very few are make into everlasting life. Because we must be beware of false teachings, pastors, religions. We can watch or read pastors' fruit, see if they are truly saved or not through their actions.

Rich man is a perfect example, that many people are desire to have eternal life. I am sure that a rich man actual believe Jesus is the Son of God, and also, he believed Christ is the 'Master'. He asked Christ, what things that he desires to have eternal life. Christ already know rich man's heart with attitude. Christ told him, if he desires to have eternal life, then, he have to surrender or give up everything what he have, give them to poor people, shall have treasure in the heaven, come and follow Christ. Then, when the rich man heard Christ, he was bitter, and refuse give up his possession, and won't follow Christ. Sadly, he is already in hell because of no faith, even, refuse to obedience Christ.

Abraham was a wealthy man in the land of Ur. He posessed lot things. One day, God came to Abraham, and to call him to come out of Ur, and to follow God. Abraham believed him, even, he OBEYED God, and to follow God.

Same with Jesus tells us, come and to follow him, or if we refuse to follow CHrist, then we cannot be his dsciple.

Obivously, most are on the way to hell, because of not obey Christ, and go in their own ways.

Scarlett O. is right, believe is a action verb.

John 3:16 in King James Version - 'believETH' means continue believing. It does not say, 'believED'.

John 3:16 promises us, God love the world, WHOSOEVER believETH that God sent His Son, shall not go perish but have everlasting life. It promsies us, anyone who continue believe on Christ will not go hell, but have everlasting life.

Or... if we stopped believing Christ, we might be cut off according Romans 11:19-23 & John 15:6.

I want to share with you a true story. I won't given the name of the church, and name of ex-sunday school teacher. I know him well. That church is an independent fundamental baptist. I did visited that church have deaf ministry in 1995. I met that man, he is deaf, taught sunday school class. One day, I visited that church. I went to deaf sunday school class. He taught about the judgement seat of Christ. After the church service over. We went out to eat together. I enjoy chatted with him.

In year around 2001, I heard from a deaf pastor told us when we were at the store. He said, he was told from deaf ministry at another church. That sunday school teacher was kicked out because of his beliefs changed. He told them that, he is no longer believe Jesus is the Son of God, and not believe that He is the deity of God. He told them, Jesus is only a man like us. I was shocked and disappoint. Also, at the Christian volleyball tournment. I caught one deaf person talked to deaf pastor about that man. He said, the reason why that man has changed his beliefs. Because that man spent study and reasearch sites on itnernet too much. That sit told him, that Christ is not the deity of God.

Few weeks later, I emailed to that man. I show him of verses in the Old Testament prophecies on Jesus Christ is the Messiah, and talk about the Son of God.

He replied email to me. He show me of the site about Christ. That site deny Christ is the deity of God, Son of God, and He is the truly Messiah. But he is only man like us. He told me, he does not believe Jesus is the Son of God. Also, he wants me to stop send email to him, want me to leave him alone. So, I left him alone.

Very sad.

It could be happen to anyone even, also baptists too.

That why Romans 11:19-23 tells us, that we must be fear of the Lord, because we could be cut off, if we stopped believing. Bible commands us, that we must continue believing in Christ all the way to the end then shall be saved (Matt. 10:22; Matt 24:13).

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

"believe" in John 3:16 is the Greek word "pisteuon" which is a verbal participle, from "pisteuo"

("pisteuo" is the verbal form of the Greek noun 'pistis', which means 'faith')


Unfortunately, the English "believe" denotes an internal action or mental assent, whereas a verbal participle denotes external action in reference to mental understanding.

English does not have a verbal form for the noun "faith", so the translators used the word "believe" or sometimes "believing". The word "believe" should always be seen as "faith in action", or "faithing" in this case "faithing Jesus".

In the first century culture of the Roman Empire, to "know" something or to "believe" something always meant that your external actions changed accordingly.

So in John 3:16, "believe" must be seen as reference to action; a transformed life based on an understanding and trusting in the person of Jesus, the revealed Son of the Living God.

peace to youraying:

 

jd, thanks for your post! Your posts are always very biblically sound, thoughtful, and on target. :thumbs:

What you say makes me feel better for explaining the gospel to people in my ministry usually as "have faith in Christ" or "trust in Christ" rather than "believe in Christ." I'm afraid they'll mistake the latter for a mental assent. I "believed in Christ" before I was a believer, in fact, because I did believe someone named Jesus lived at one time and was considered the Christ. It's just that I thought all of us could be a type of Christ as well.

So thanks!

 

Thank you for your kind words, and "ditto" concerning your posts.

I, too, can remember believing God/Jesus existed; thinking I was saved; when I was as lost. I marvel that our Lord has so much patience with His children, and thank Him for His kind mercy and abundant love.

peace to youraying:

 

canady,

could you explain what made you think you were saved before, and what the difference is now that makes you say you ARE saved now?

 

I'll try. I remember thinking I was "saved" because I believed Jesus/God existed. I had been baptized several times in different churches. The first time I was baptized I was about 10. It was a pentecostal church our neighbors belonged to and they baptized in a fast moving creek. On the way, their daughter (about my age) asked if I knew what baptism meant. I said no. The father said, "well, when you get in the water think about Jesus. When you go under, think about Jesus. When you come up, think about Jesus." Now, I knew I could do that and that's what I did. "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus", right up until I came out of the water, lost my footing and floated down the creek.

In my mind, salvation was about believing God/Jesus existed, and trying to do more good than bad. I read the bible through, though I had no real understanding of scripture. I can remember telling people that "God is a righteous judge" and that when we die, God will weigh the good we did in our lives against the bad, and if the good outweighed the bad, we would be saved. I went to church off and on for most of my life. I studied "supernatural" stuff as a hobby.

When I finished college, we started going to a little baptist church down the street so my son could have kids his age to play with. We decided to join, and they wanted us to get baptized "again" because all those other baptisms didn't really count since they weren't in a baptist church. That didn't bother me at all, so we set up the day.

As I waited to get "baptized" in the side room, an overwhelming sense of despair came over me. My sin seemed suddenly to far outweigh the "good" I had in my life. I fell to the floor, sobbing. (now, I thought men should never cry and I was quite surprised by the tears) I literally prayed that God would take my life so that I would not sin any further against Him, and bring me into a worse place in hell. "Let this (my life) be over", I said.

A couple of people came in, and then left me alone. I really don't remember who, but my wife said she was one of the them. I don't even know how long I was in there.

As suddenly as the depair came upon me, I remembered "Jesus died for my sins". In my mind, I saw Jesus on the cross and understood for the first time what those words meant. "Jesus died for my sins". "Trust in Jesus" "your faith has made you whole".

The despair left me, and a new sense of joy came upon me. I got off that floor a different man. I was transformed into a new creation. I was saved. I was then immediately baptized, and my life has never been the same.

I know now it was Holy Spirit bringing conviction upon me; of my own sinfulness, and conviction of the truth of who Jesus is and what He did.

Let me add that I do not believe everyone must have such an experience to be saved, or that anyone claiming to have such an experience is saved.

Salvation is about a transformed life. That is one way I know that I am saved. As I look back, I realize that my life had never been transformed by the power of Holy Spirit prior to that moment. The old man is dead, the new man lives. The new man has the Spirit of God indwelling.

I know where I have been, I know where I am, and I know where I am going.

peace to youraying:

 

Canadyjd, I understand what you are talking about. I myself had an experience like yours a couple of years ago, when I had found myself in a backslidden state and God brought me to repentance and my life has been totally changed. But I don't think that I wasn't saved before. The difference in my life now I can only attribute to conversion, which must be a change of heart in a believer, not the 'act' of believing itself.

Luke 22:32
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Peter had faith, but his conversion did not occur until later. Many saved believers are not walking according to the spirit, but according to the flesh, just as Peter was when he denied the Lord.

 

No. I'm sure this is going to chafe some people but true belief engenders - "births" - OBEDIENCE. When we speak of being "born again," we say that our "belief" (unproven expectation, thing "hoped for") caused us to respond to God by the means that He requires whereupon we receive regeneration, faith (evidence, even proof, of things hoped for/belief), eternal life, spiritual gifts, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

True belief QUICKENS our dead spirit to action whereupon we receive faith and salvation.

skypair

 

What is the Biblical criteria for such evidence? What kind and how much, before I can know that I am saved?

ok? Nothing about the blood here? Nothing about substitution? Just "accept him into my heart" as Lord and Saviour and really really really mean it? Just feel really really really sorry for my sin and promise to try to quit? is that the gospel?

We can't? Who has submitted everything?, Especially among baby Christians, or Christians who are backslidden?

So we can sin as much as we want as long as our longing is ok?

If I sin (even really badly), am I still saved? What if for a week or so I really don't want to please anybody but myself? What if my sexual purity is submitted but I still want to get stoned or drunk? Or visa-versa. What if I have been saved for years but I still gossip or I am derisive? Am I saved?

Or:
Does it prove I was never "really" saved.
Does it mean I was saved but lost it? (Can I get it back?)
Does it prove nothing, other than i am a disobedient son subject to chastening.

How much sin does it take to overwhelm the saving power of Christ's blood?

Lacy

 

"Head knowledge", IMHO, is a extra-biblical term that Satan himself invented to confound the simplicity of the Gospel of salvation by Faith alone in order to keep folks from ever understanding how to get saved.

Or else it could be that man has such an evil sinful desire to have a part in his own salvation, that he cannot really believe that his "best" is just filthy rags, and he must be able to contribute something.

Lacy

 

Well, Paul did, anyway. But what that has to do with the word believe, I don't know. We have a word for commit, it's commit. Jesus did not say, 'Whosoever committeth his life to me shall be raised up on the last day.' I know plenty of Christians who I would not say have committed their lives to Christ, but I don't think that makes them unsaved.

Do they? Then why do they say all those other things when you ask them if they are saved? If I don't get a clear indication that someone understands the gospel, I wouldn't assume they were saved just because they said they were a Christian. But if someone understands that they are saved by the blood of Christ, what else can I add to that? 'But do you really believe that you are saved by the shed blood of Christ?' I might ask the same question of anyone who says that a believer must show good works in order to be truly saved.

They don't know why they should be doing it.

Christians should have the deep committment to Christ that you are talking about, but the fact remains that many don't. We shouldn't change the definitions of words just because we don't like the fact that Jesus Christ might desire to save the undesirable. If we put works in its proper place, for rewards and not for the free gift of salvation, then the issue works itself out.

 

The blood plus my fruit?

So if you apply this to salvation, it means that if I ever once love something "in the world", desires, flesh, etc., that I am not saved?

 

The fact that Paul struggled, fought, wrestled, and repented proves my point not yours. Your doctrine acts as though obedience and holiness are automatic and there is no failure possible.

 

First you must prove that "in the faith" means "saved", and not just "in the faith". He is speaking to those who are saved.(1 Cor. 1:2) So if it means "saved" then you can lose it if you don't constantly "examine yourself". Christ is the author, but I am the finisher?

I hope not.

 

Do you believe that it is impossible for a Christian to "live according to the flesh"? Then why warn him not to? This verse is also written to saved folks and warning them to live holy or else displease God.