What does believe mean?

If they are walking according to the flesh, they should have no assurance of their salvation.

It could be they are saved and backslidden. If that is the case, then God disciplines those He loves and God is more than able to bring them back into a right relationship.

It could be they were never saved in the first place. In that case, to give them assurance based on some prayer they have prayed, or some other experience they have had in the past is to give false assurance to someone bound for hell.

Our duty, as Christians, is to practice Church discipline on such people, in love and with the purpose of restoration of fellowship. Should that fail, we should treat them as unbelievers, just as Christ commanded.

peace to youraying:

 

This is a tough one, I'll admit. I believe the question "How do I inherit eternal life" is a question about the Kingdom that a jew would have been expecting. I really don't think this guy would have had any concept of "salvation" in an eternal sense.

But it is a difficult passage.

I reccommend this book. S S Craig explains it better than me.

http://www.schoettlepublishing.com/booksonline/craig/eternallife.htm

 

All about fruit.

 

Amen and Amen!

 

Lacy Evans: I know you are not talking to me, but you are incorrect to state that Paul is addressing those who are saved (as if he knows who is and who isn't).

Paul is addressing those who have professed to be saved. He doesn't pronounce them to be saved or unsaved. He certainly hopes and prays that they are. He may even address them with the assumption that most of them are. But it is clear from his statements that he has his doubts about their salvation (at least some of them), based on their actions.

That is why he urges them to examine themselves to see if they are "in the faith" which is the same as "having Jesus in you" which is the same as having salvation. If they "fail the test", they certainly do not have salvation.

peace to youraying:

 

Only a saved person has a light to "let shine". This is a verse about obedience, not salvation.

 

Look at verse 19. Whoever does this will what? You might have lower rank in the Kingdom.

Verse 20? You can miss the Kingdom!

This is REWARD not Salvation.

 

Perfect is mature. It is a process. If you are obedient, you'll get there. If not, you won't.

 

Keep reading to 5:5. The Kingdom is the context. Not Salvation!

 

Lacy, you might check out my own post #45 in the "Not saved if you don't understand the Bible" thread. I attempted to comment on that passage, there.

Ed

 

Great posts, Lacy! I fail to understand why so many confuse reward with spiritual salvation; why the Kingdom is confused with spiritual salvation; and why so many accept things that seem contradictory in views they hold.

 

Assurance is not based on a prayer. The Bible never says to pray, or ask Jesus into your heart, etc. But assurance is likewise not based on holiness or fruit. Assurance is based on something "sure". The Finished work of Christ. His shed blood for me.

All obedience proves is that you are obedient. All holiness proves is that you are holy.

Lacy

 

1 John 5:13 "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life."

I believe this verse is speaking of assurance of salvation. Do you agree?

peace to youraying:

 

"Faith" is the same as "believe", excepting that one is a noun, and the other is a verb, especially in Greek from "pisteuo" and hence "pistis".
I'd suggest the Bible gives a fairly clear definition of this -

Works for me!:thumbsup:

Ed

 

No. I believe 1 John is written to the saved. If you are saved you know you are saved because you know in whom you have believed. There are two assurances.

1) Absolute Assurance that we are saved based upon the finished work, the shed blood of Christ. (Blood only)

2) Relative Assurance that we are walking holy based upon our outward holiness and obedience. (Water and Blood)

#1 is Salvation in eternity.
#2 is salvation from the chastening hand of our loving righteous Father.



1 John:
It is about maintaining fellowship with God. (1:6)
It is a warning to us (the little children) to not sin. (2:1)
It is about our walk and abiding in Christ (2:6,10)
So we don't abide in sin.(3:5-8)
So we can Love God, and have his love perfected in us, and know that we are dwelling in him (our walk).(4:8-13)
So we can be born (carried) by God, (5:1-4)



-Lacy

 

Lacy, outta' curiosity, what is the model and year of the "Allis Gleaner" combine in your photo?

And BTW, you can teach in the Bible College that I head, anytime!!! :thumbsup: (Well, maybe except language- 'cause Language Cop says that to be carried is to be "borne", but that doesn't happen until after we are "born"! :laugh
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I wonder - Can I find one, or will we have to start that Bible Coll...?? :laugh: :wavey:

Ed

 

What do the words "that you may know that you have eternal life" mean?

peace to youraying:

 

I believe it is a "K". like this one:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...gleaner+k&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=active&sa=G


It is about the same size as an "A" but newer. It was the little machine used more by small farmers when the "G" was the Gleaner flagship in the 70's.

I ran the bigger ones: ("L's, N's, and R's) but I remember Daddy having A's, C's and G's when I was little.

 

2 Thessalonians 3:14-15
14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Discipline is for believers. If a persons eternal salvation hinges upon obedience, then grace is no more grace.