• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What does ETERNAL mean?

D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
HP: Neither does Scripture state, imply, or give grounds for your very deterministic leaning interpretation that would eliminate ‘castaway’ from carrying the connotation of ending up making shipwreck of the faith and as such not making heaven Paul’s final eternal home.
Click to expand...
At no time in Scripture (after his conversion) did Paul ever give any hint of any doubt of him being unsaved. You are stating here that Paul is thinking that he may be unsaved! Absolutely ludicrous!!

1 Corinthians 9:25-27 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

It is a personal illustration. Look at all the first person pronouns: "I"
He is using athletic illustrations:
One from running a race.
One from boxing.
The other from training for these athletic events.

The context is in Corinth, Greece, and likely a reference to the Olympic Games--in Greece where they originated. The athletes all competed for a corruptible crown, one that faded away. But that didn't mean they weren't athletes if they didn't win. They trained. He kept his body fit--under subjection. The flesh must be subdued. One must submit himself to the Spirit, not the flesh. We are always in a race. Sometimes an athlete disqualifies himself from the race. But he still remains an athlete. In some sports one can disqualify themself simply by a false start.

It is not hard to be set on the shelf in the ministry. I know of a pastor that fell into adultery. He didn't lose his salvation. But he did lose his ministry. He was no longer qualified as a pastor, and had to step down. Because of his action (giving into the flesh rather than the Spirit) he was a "castaway", set on the shelf--in other words, his ministry for the Lord and to others became severely limited.
But he did not lose his salvation. The context is not speaking of salvation.
Paul's salvation was never in question.
 
H

Heavenly Pilgrim

New Member
DHK: At no time in Scripture (after his conversion) did Paul ever give any hint of any doubt of him being unsaved. You are stating here that Paul is thinking that he may be unsaved! Absolutely ludicrous!!
Click to expand...
HP: What is absolutely ludicrous is the manner in which you treat others. While you chastise others for acting in a particular manner, you turn right around and do the very same thing to them.

If I stated that, quote me. I never once stated Paul is thinking he might be "unsaved.” I have neither stated or implied any such thing.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
HP: What is absolutely ludicrous is the manner in which you treat others. While you chastise others for acting in a particular manner, you turn right around and do the very same thing to them.

If I stated that, quote me. I never once stated Paul is thinking he might be "unsaved.” I have neither stated or implied any such thing.
Click to expand...
It is precisely what you said:
HP: Neither does Scripture state, imply, or give grounds for your very deterministic leaning interpretation that would eliminate ‘castaway’ from carrying the connotation of ending up making shipwreck of the faith and as such not making heaven Paul’s final eternal home.
Click to expand...
 
B

billwald

New Member
This is what I believe:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.

Amen.

THE NICENE CREED

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
of all that is, seen and unseen.


We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.

Through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.

On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father.

With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.

He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
You quote me, yet still maintain I said something I never stated. Where did I say anything about being "unsaved???"
Click to expand...
Don't play semantics HP. Unless you are a Catholic believing in Purgatory the statement that you made "not making heaven Paul’s final eternal home." means the possibility of Paul being unsaved and on his way to hell. That is what you wrote.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
Absolutely false. No man can be unsaved, neither can any man be unborn. The thought is 'ludicrous' as you might say.
Click to expand...
Now you are speaking out of both sides of your one mouth.
You seem to be denying what you said even though I have quoted you word for word. What is up with that?

And your quote above is teaching OSAS. Have you changed your position?
 
H

Heavenly Pilgrim

New Member
If there ever was one that did not understand the position of another, it is you DHK.

DHK: And your quote above is teaching OSAS. Have you changed your position?
Click to expand...

HP:It does no such thing. No, I have not changed my position. You simply have concocted some notion in your mind as to what I believe that is pure conjecture.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
If there ever was one that did not understand the position of another, it is you DHK.
Click to expand...
One step at a time.
First you stated that I was wrong concerning 1Cor.9:27; that I could not be dogmatic about its interpretation; and that it could apply to salvation. Correct?

Then to support your contention you used the example of the Apostle Paul, of whom you wrote explicitly saying:
not making heaven Paul’s final eternal home.

Not making heaven Paul's final eternal home, is by default making Hell Paul's final eternal home, and thus making Paul an unsaved person. What else can one deduce? You have alleged that Paul is unsaved whether directly or indirectly. Why are you trying to deny it now?

 
H

Heavenly Pilgrim

New Member


The problem with DHK’s understanding is because he has developed tunnel vision. He has evidently had it hammered into his head so long that salvation is accomplished in its entirety by one act of faith, he has evidently lost all ability to reason outside of that box.

Salvation is entered into by repentance and one act of faith, but salvation is not in its entirety accomplished by those conditions. Salvation is thought of in three tenses not one. It is not culminated in its entirety until we hear those words well done thou good and faithful servant. We have been saved when we enter into salvation by repentance and faith. We continue in the faith as we walk daily in obedience to Gods Word, and our faith will be fully consummated when our faith turns to sight and we know Him face to face in the world to come. We have been saved, we are bing saved, and we will be saved.

Just as BR has FAITHFULLY pointed out, one cannot be unsaved or unborn, but one can certainly turn their back on ones faith and be cut off, their hope revoked……yet can, if they will through repentance and obedience, be grafted in once again.

The word ‘unsaved’ is simply a figment of the minds of DHK and others that try their best to place the ideas of any opposing their own in an unbiblical light by using unbiblical terms implying something that is simply not the truth nor stated by the others they oppose. DHK has absolutely no right to use terms to describe ones views that do not speak to the truth or the stated positions of others.
 
Jedi Knight

Jedi Knight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
billwald said:
This is what I believe:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.

Amen.

THE NICENE CREED

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
of all that is, seen and unseen.


We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.

Through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.

On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father.

With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.

He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Click to expand...

Did you know that even if you believe ALL this you can still go straight to Hell? Facts don't save anyone.....it's FAITH in Christ.
 
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
billwald said:
This is what I believe:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.

Amen.

THE NICENE CREED

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
of all that is, seen and unseen.


We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.

Through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.

On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father.

With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.

He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Click to expand...

Okay, then why do you say you don't concern yourself with things after life here? The very last line above says "we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come." That means we anticipate and look forward eagerly to this final manifestation of Christ's victory over sin. The Bible ends with this: "Come Lord Jesus!"
 
P

Peggy

New Member
The Nicene and Apostles creeds are the facts of salvation that are accepted through faith by the grace of God.
 
B

billwald

New Member
>Interesting. I have faith in God, not creeds.

Interesting. That, by definition, is a creedal statement.

I thought that "faith" and "believe/belief" came from the same root word in Greek.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top