What does ETERNAL mean?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: And what did he say?
He never answered the question! Is this characteristic of both of you?

Did you read the title of the thread?

HP: As I read BR in post #45 he was trying to set forth basically the following. First, one can stop believing and as such forfeit their hope of eternal life. He set forth the thought that if one does not believe or ceases to believe, the promise of eternal life is no longer a valid hope. He also set forth that when one determines the meaning of a particular word in a verse, wisdom says to pay attention to verses that may in fact modify or offer different conclusions than what one might desire to see if supporting a presupposition seems to be ones only agenda.

Great points by the way BR. :thumbsup:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

One thing to bear in mind is that it is not the definition of 'eternal' where the divide between systems of thought occur, but rather in the application of the word and to whom and when it remains as a valid hope. There is not a shred of viable evidence in Scripture that supports the sinning religion many seem bent on supporting. The notion that is often floated that if one stops believing and abiding in Christ that it makes no difference in ones hope of eternal life and ones final destiny, is a notion not found in Scripture, reason or experience.

 

[DHK]

One thing to bear in mind is that it is not the definition of 'eternal' where the divide between systems of thought occur, but rather in the application of the word and to whom and when it remains as a valid hope. There is not a shred of viable evidence in Scripture that supports the sinning religion many seem bent on supporting. The notion that is often floated that if one stops believing and abiding in Christ that it makes no difference in ones hope of eternal life and ones final destiny, is a notion not found in Scripture, reason or experience.

Unbelievable! You really are incapable of answering the simplest of questions! Do you want a link to a dictionary?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Unbelievable! You really are incapable of answering the simplest of questions! Do you want a link to a dictionary?

HP: How does a link to a dictionary help one understand the spiritual implications of the hope of eternal life promised?

What about the word 'gift' DHK and your assertion that if it is a gift it of necessity can have no conditions stated or implied? You asked me how a gift could be conditional and I gave you ample illustrations yet all I got in return, as I recall, was silence.

When one builds a theological doctrine based on a mere definition of a word and a manufactured philosophy of what constitutes a gift crafted out of thin air, it is a notion built upon sand.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

By the way, all those placing their hope in a dictionary created by man, might see if God will allow you to take it with you to the judgment. I wonder if one can order an 'eternal' copy for such a time?

Picture some of those even on this board giving God a lesson from the dictionary on the word 'eternal' and how it must be applied to the salvation He conditionally instituted at the judgment. According to some, it is either their way and understanding or God is a liar and as such can hit the highway.

 

[RAdam]

HP: Yes, and it also clearly indicates one can believe in vain. 1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, IF ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Why the admonition to keep in memory what Paul has preached, without which ones belief might end up vain? Will believing in vain save anyone?

The context is the error of saying there is no resurrection of the dead. He argues against this error with the fact of the resurrection of Christ, and reminded the Corinthians that this was among the first things he preached to them. If they will keep this in memory they will be saved from this abominable error.

Elsewhere (2 Timothy 2) Paul mentions two individuals that taught that the resurrection was passed, which resulted in the faith of some being overthrown. Does Paul then say, oh well, they didn't perservere to the end, I guess their faith was in vain, or not real faith, or something along those lines? No, he said: nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal: the Lord knoweth them that are His.

 

[DHK]

HP: How does a link to a dictionary help one understand the spiritual implications of the hope of eternal life promised?

No one asked for implications.
You have a hard time with comprehension and seem incapable of answering a simple question.
Again the title of this thread provides the simplest of questions. Try your best. Give it a shot.

What does ETERNAL mean?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

I'll make you a deal. I will tell you what eternal means when you tell what the context it is used in is, and tell me why a Sovereign God, or anyone for that matter, cannot give a conditional gift. :thumbsup:

 

[Amy.G]

tell me why a Sovereign God, or anyone for that matter, cannot give a conditional gift. :thumbsup:

Because if it's conditional, it isn't a gift. Duh! :BangHead:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy : Because if it's conditional, it isn't a gift. Duh!

HP: Begging the question adds no credibility, to your ‘Duh!’ ...neither does beating your head against the bricks.

Prove it.:thumbsup:

 

[Amy.G]

HP: Begging the question adds no credibility, to your ‘Duh!’ ...neither does beating your head against the bricks.

Prove it.:thumbsup:

gift
–noun
1. something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.
2. the act of giving.
3. something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned: Those extra points he got in the game were a total gift.
4. a special ability or capacity; natural endowment; talent: the gift of saying the right thing at the right time.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gift


I've said it before. The dictionary is your friend.

 

[DHK]

I'll make you a deal. I will tell you what eternal means when you tell what the context it is used in is, and tell me why a Sovereign God, or anyone for that matter, cannot give a conditional gift. :thumbsup:

The context of "eternal" is "eternal life."
How long is "eternal"? When does eternal stop being eternal and start becoming "temporal"?
If it does then is Jesus Christ a liar? For He is the one who promised "the gift of God is eternal life. I give it to you and you shall never perish.
Eternal does mean eternal doesn't it?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy, you have not established why a gift is not conditional by the definitions you posted in the least. A pardon is a gift, yet has clear implied conditions. I can give a gift of a car to my child and yet place conditions on the usage of it, without their full cooperation they relinquish their rights to the gift. Many are the examples of gifts with conditions. Fulfilling conditions in no wise constitute earning the gift by merit.

A Sovereign God is not limited to your understanding or application of the definitions you mention above. He can place conditions upon any gift He so chooses, as He proved when He offered us the gift of salvation via the conditions of repentance, faith, and obedience until the end.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Not so fast DHK. You did not tell us 'why' a Sovereign God, or anyone for that matter, cannot give a conditional gift.

 

[Amy.G]

The context of "eternal" is "eternal life."
How long is "eternal"? When does eternal stop being eternal and start becoming "temporal"?
If it does then is Jesus Christ a liar? For He is the one who promised "the gift of God is eternal life. I give it to you and you shall never perish.
Eternal does mean eternal doesn't it?

DHK, don't you know that according to HP a gift is conditional?

What is wrong with you? (extreme sarcasm)

 

[Amy.G]

HP, remind me never to accept a gift from you. I don't like strings. :tonofbricks:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: HP, remind me never to accept a gift from you. I don't like strings.

HP: Not liking strings does not stop a Sovereign God, nor a loving father, from placing conditions on gifts, or in this case the gift of salvation that cost Him His very own Son’s life.

Psalms 24:3-5 ¶ Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

 

[Marcia]

HP: Not liking strings does not stop a Sovereign God, nor a loving father, from placing conditions on gifts, or in this case the gift of salvation that cost Him His very own Son’s life.

Psalms 24:3-5 ¶ Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

This is partly a Messianic psalm prophesying the Messiah, and also shows us that no one is worthy or able to do this, which takes us right to Christ, from whom righteousness is imputed to those who believe.

Iow, no one can achieve the above, except Jesus, who did have clean hands, a pure heart, had no vanity, nor "was there any deceit in his mouth."

 

[Amy.G]

HP: Not liking strings does not stop a Sovereign God, nor a loving father, from placing conditions on gifts, or in this case the gift of salvation that cost Him His very own Son’s life.

That's right. It cost Him, not you. That's why salvation is a gift.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: DHK, don't you know that according to HP a gift is conditional?

HP: What is wrong with you Amy? Why do you say I believe something I have not stated? All gifts do not have to be conditional, but it just so happens the gift of salvation is in fact conditional according to Scripture.