What does Genesis One literally say?

[john6:63]

Meatros

I was raised IFB. I’m used to hearing a preacher preach as the Lord meant for His word to be preached. No hold bars. My feelings have been hurt numerous of times. My toes stay bruised. But it’s what I need to hear, b/c it’s the absolute truth.

It’s one thing to interpret the scripture, but when one’s interpretation is taking away from the meaning it’s plain WRONG!

I think it is silly to turn to secular man for the correct interpretation, when searching and studying the scriptures will reveal the meaning behind Gods word along with a little common sense.

Sorry for the delay. I have to be somewhat productive today at work.

 

[Meatros]

I was raised IFB. I’m used to hearing a preacher preach as the Lord meant for His word to be preached. No hold bars. My feelings have been hurt numerous of times. My toes stay bruised. But it’s what I need to hear, b/c it’s the absolute truth.

Here's the thing, I was raised with the Lord's word and what it meant as well. If the Lord's word isn't up for interpretation then why do our respective beliefs differ?

It’s one thing to interpret the scripture, but when one’s interpretation is taking away from the meaning it’s plain WRONG!

I totally agree, which is why I can't believe in a young earth. My God is not a liar and I will not make him into one. I will not take away form the meaning of Genesis by trying to equate it with a specific period in time-that totally negates the point of Genesis.

I think it is silly to turn to secular man for the correct interpretation, when searching and studying the scriptures will reveal the meaning behind Gods word along with a little common sense.

I agree with you on the face of this issue, but I disagree with how you choose to apply it. I don't know who exactly you are calling a 'secular' man, seeing as I do believe in the supernatural. I suppose that's another way of trying to distract me from telling you the truth about the bible.

 

[john6:63]

In talking w/ my mom a few months back. I asked her how old the earth is, she replied billions of years old. I asked; how do you know? She replied I was taught that in school.

I asked then, how long it took God to create the earth? 7 days, she said. 7 literal days I asked. Yes. she replied, b/c that’s what’s written.

We reviewed Genesis and the creation account with Adam being created on day 6 and living to be 930 yrs old and we reviewed the Genealogy up to Noah, who lived to be 950 on up to Abraham. By then my dad had joined the quick review and before we got to Abraham it dawned on her. The earth isn’t billions or even millions of years old. It just doesn’t add up.

Both my parents have read the Bible numerous times and even took bible class, but it never dawned on them that they’ve been lied to when they attended school growing up. A lot of people skip the genealogy part of the Bible. I for one used to. It’s boring, but there is a wealth of information contained therein.

 

[Paul of Eugene]

SO, J6, how come you accept the time part as literal and don't believe the dome part? That's literal to! Firmament, in KJV. Over our heads. With little lights stuck in it for our benefit. Literally. Holding back the waters above.

Or did you also sit down with your folks and decide the earth does not circle around the sun after all?

 

[john6:63]

You have a problem with the “canopy of water” that some theologians refer to that engulfed the entire earth and was released at the time of the great flood that also covered the entire earth.

You see in Genesis 1:7, God divides the waters which was under and above the firmament, which was called Heaven. In Genesis 7:11 we read, “…windows of heaven were opened.” The NASB refers to these windows as “floodgates.” In addition to this “canopy of water” that was released during the flood and an earthquake is the only answer which would have caused the “great deep” to break up, as well as rain for 40 days and nights. All this is what caused a global flood.

In Genesis 8:2 we read “The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained..” Now why did God refer to “windows of heaven were stopped” and “rain from heaven was restrained?” Looks to me they’re two different events.

In addition no rain is recorded before the flood. This “canopy” some like to call may have provided some sort of protection from the sun’s rays. This could be why Adam lived to be 930 yrs, Seth lived to be 912 yrs and Methuselah lived to be 969 yrs. Adams genetic line and his descendents was pure as well as their health.

Do I take Genesis 1:7 Literal? YES
Do I take Genesis 7:11 Literal? YES SIR
Do I take Genesis 8:2 Literal? YEPPERS
Do I take the age of those in Genesis Literal? You bet cha

 

[Meatros]

john6:63 You take it literally even though it's simply not possible?

 

[john6:63]

How is it not possible?

 

[Meatros]

There is no possible way that the earth is 6k-10k years old (my meteors example).

 

[john6:63]

Hey if you can go to bed at night believing that it took our Lord millions of to create, that’s between you and Him.

I’m content going to bed at night knowing that our Lord said He created in 6 literal days and that’s how He meant it to be taken b/c Exodus 20:8-11 tells me so.

“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”

Praise God!

 

[A_Christian]

AMEN John 6:63

 

[Meatros]

I’m content going to bed at night knowing that our Lord said He created in 6 literal days and that’s how He meant it to be taken b/c Exodus 20:8-11 tells me so.

How can you go to bed at night when you've just made your God into a liar? I don't understand that, I truly don't. You don't seem to realize that the implication of a young earth (which is impossible) turns your God into a deceptive God.

If he's deceptive then why should you believe in his promises of salvation??

 

[john6:63]

Originally posted by Meatros:

If he's deceptive then why should you believe in his promises of salvation??

Why that’s an easy one Meatros! The Bible tells me so! You should know me better than that!

I am curious though Meatros. If science says it’s impossible for anyone to have lived as long as Adam or that it’s impossible for God to have created in 6 literal days, b/c of these meteors or whatever. Then what does science says about the resurrected Christ? What does science say about Moses parting the Red Sea? What does science say about Jonah in the belly of a big fish? Where do you as a “Bible believing Christian” draw the line?

I may have to work with non-Christians, but I don’t fellowship with them. The same goes with science that is out to prove the Bible as false.

What concerns me is that your arguments are the same ones that I run into on the atheist boards. The atheists and agnostics love to throw up the contradictions of the Bible. They love to mix science into the Bible to prove it isn’t authentically the word of God. If God meant for it to look as though it took Him longer than 6-24 hr days to create, He wouldn’t have link “day” with “evening” and “morning.” He very well could have said …and that was the first day of our Lord. God planed it the way He did for a reason and it’s explained why in Exodus 20:8-11.

 

[Paul of Eugene]

Originally posted by john6:63:
You have a problem with the “canopy of water” that some theologians refer to that engulfed the entire earth and was released at the time of the great flood that also covered the entire earth.

That is a non literal interpretation. The scriptures refer to a firmament that stands between us and the water. It also refers to the sun, moon, and stars being stuck on the underside of the firmament for signs and light for us. That is the literal scriptural reading.

Your canopy theory is not only non literal, it is scientifically impossible to prop up! Why trade a literal interpretation for a non literal when they're both impossible anyway?

In Genesis 8:2 we read “The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained..” Now why did God refer to “windows of heaven were stopped” and “rain from heaven was restrained?” Looks to me they’re two different events.

Then you must have missed the class session when they talked about Hebrew Parallesims. The Bible frequently repeats the same idea in different words. Example: The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament sheweth His handiwork.

In addition no rain is recorded before the flood.

That is literally implied in the scriptures.

This “canopy” some like to call may have provided some sort of protection from the sun’s rays. This could be why Adam lived to be 930 yrs, Seth lived to be 912 yrs and Methuselah lived to be 969 yrs.

That is all pure unwarranted speculation. The canopy is impossible, the suns rays are dangerous only to the skin, not the genes in eggs and sperm anyway. You can't just make stuff up and expect it to be accepted as gospel!

The psalmist referred to the firmament as continueing to exist in his day so that proves the firmament is not a canopy that went away.

The psalmist also referred to the waters above the firmament - see lead post of this thread - so that's also proof the flood did not drain away the water, in the literal view of the biblical writers.

So you re-interpret the literal view your own weird way and then complain when we want to accept the scientific evidence regarding the age of the earth and the universe? That's not playing fair.

 

[john6:63]

Originally posted by Paul of Eugene:

The psalmist referred to the firmament as continueing to exist in his day so that proves the firmament is not a canopy that went away.

If Psalm 148 proves anything is that there were indeed “waters above the skies” Psalm 148 is a call for praise from earth and is directed to the highest heavens! It speaks about God and His creation and us. Hence “for He commanded and they were created .”

 

[Paul of Eugene]

Originally posted by john6:63:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Paul of Eugene:

The psalmist referred to the firmament as continueing to exist in his day so that proves the firmament is not a canopy that went away.

If Psalm 148 proves anything is that there were indeed “waters above the skies” Psalm 148 is a call for praise from earth and is directed to the highest heavens! It speaks about God and His creation and us. Hence “for He commanded and they were created .” </font>

It is Psalms 19:1 that speaks of the firmament existing at the time of the psalmist.


Ps 19:1-6
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
KJV

 

[A_Christian]

Meatros:

Firmament to me means the expanse of the heavens
or the universe. If I'm looking up at clouds
on a sunny day, I would consider it the vault of
sky above my head. That is how I look at it and
I live in the year 2003.

It is you who calls GOD a liar. You read into
everything the Word says to make the BIBLE
compatable with the opinions of man today.
The Bible was written for everyone--today,
yesterday and tomorrow. Its implications don't
change nor its facts. It is OUR opinions and
philosophies that change to suit OUR egos.
Did Abraham know what GOD was talking about?
How about Moses? How about Ezekiel? What of
Paul and Peter? THEY ALL BELIEVED THAT THE
OLD TESTAMENT WAS PERFECT AND TOTALLY FACTUAL!!!!!!!!!!!

Some of you keep saying that the scientific
community at large is "Christian". Well, most
of the fellas that promoted evolution and no
Flood were ATHEISTS. Darwin was a borderline
"Christian" at best (he went to church because
his daddy did). He died an agnostic. Carl Sagan
was a learned man, but he died an ATHEIST.
Too bad all that knowledge is now stewing in Hell.
I'm sorry for you Meatros and all those like
yourself. You've been indoctrinated in evolutionary thought ---- and it is fact to you.

 

[john6:63]

Originally posted by Paul of Eugene:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Gen 1:1-2:3
1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

There was nothing, and then God created the formless and void earth; we are also introduced to the waters. Note the first reference is to the heavens and the earth, and then the next reference is to the waters only. Where is the earth? Not specified. The waters, however, are to be identified at this stage with the heavens. There isn't anything else. There is nothing really to distinguish location; there is only the water. Water, of course, is shapeless and adapts itself to whatever shape it's container has. Before there is anything to give it shape, all is undefined.
</font>[/QUOTE]God created the heavens and earth in verse 1. Verse 2, the earth was formless (meaning no land, only water or lifelessness) and void (void meaning empty space, see Job 26:7) and darkness (darkness meaning absent of light, see Ps 104:20, 24) was over the surface (surface meaning earth) of the deep.

 

[john6:63]

Originally posted by Paul of Eugene:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
2 Peter 3:5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
NAS

In Peter's interpretation of this day, it would appear that the very water itself is what became dry land in this process.
</font>[/QUOTE]What 2 Peter 3:3-6 actually says: “…there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:”

“scoffers” hmmm….

Hence the NAS interpretation of “For when they maintain this” to the KJV of “For this they willingly are ignorant of.” I guess “Willingly ignorant” may hurt a few feelings.

“the earth standing out of the water and in the water” Genesis 1:7 maybe?

“Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.” Could this mean a global flood?

 

[Meatros]

A_Christian-A totally unrelated point to anything brought up: Are you pushing the enter key halfway through your sentences? I'm wondering because your post seems distinctly different then everyone elses.

It is you who calls GOD a liar. You read into everything the Word says to make the BIBLE
compatable with the opinions of man today.

Actually sort of. I use my head and I don't ignore the world around me in order to justify my paradigm. My God is not a liar, however I don't know how you can sit there maintaining a YEC and not realize your intellectual dishonesty.

Some of you keep saying that the scientific community at large is "Christian". Well, most of the fellas that promoted evolution and no Flood were ATHEISTS.

Oh please, you can't prove this. All it is is an attempt to discredit scientists by making them seem like conspiracy-holding atheists. I on the other hand have given evidence that the majority of Christians accept evolution.

Darwin was a borderline
"Christian" at best (he went to church because
his daddy did).

Um...Do you know how far Darwin actually got in the church? I'm betting you don't.

He died an agnostic. Carl Sagan
was a learned man, but he died an ATHEIST.
Too bad all that knowledge is now stewing in Hell.

Two things about this. One, so what? And two, you don't know if they are in hell or not-you are assuming it. I'll grant you that Sagan didn't accept Jesus, but I'm certainly not going to step into God's shoes and pronounce that sort of judgment on him. That's for God to do, not you.

I'm sorry for you Meatros and all those like yourself. You've been indoctrinated in evolutionary thought ---- and it is fact to you.

No need to feel sorry for me, I accept Jesus as my personal savior. It seems as though you are suggesting that you have divine knowledge of where I'm going after I die. Guess what? You don't. You are not Jesus, you don't get to make that call. I get the feeling from your descriptive accusation of Sagan that you receive a certain amount of pleasure from envisioning people who disagree with you going to hell.

For that I feel sorry for you.

 

[aefting]

Hello everybody.

How can you go to bed at night when you've just made your God into a liar? I don't understand that, I truly don't.

So, if I take Exodus 20:8-11 and claim that God created the universe in 6 literal days, that's making God a liar, even though that's what He says He did. BUT if I belive in billions of years, then I'm not making God a liar, even though He says He did it in 6 days? I'm afraid I don't understand.

You don't seem to realize that the implication of a young earth (which is impossible) turns your God into a deceptive God.

Luke 1:37 says that nothing is impossible with God. The context of this verse is the scientifically impossible virgin birth. Why exactly is a young earth impossible if (1) God says He did it in 6 days and (2) nothing is impossible with God?

If he's deceptive then why should you believe in his promises of salvation??

How is God being deceptive when He tells us it took 6 days? A 6-day creation demands creation with apparent age -- that's what we should expect to see. I don't see anything deceptive about it.


Andy